Speaker 0 00:00:03 Hi, and welcome to does this make me local, a podcast about aging as gracefully as possible when you're just not ready for two 40 something year old friends will find themselves kind of straddling that really odd period of time when aging and everything that is associated with is starting to become a much bigger part of our lives. We're definitely curious, but at the same time, rather terrified about aging. I'm Schiff. I'm a health science nerd and pop culture themes, and I'm sin and adult and waiting obsessed with finance and self-help books. We're going to be talking about the stereotypes of aging and how they affect us. And we'll also be doing some deeper dives into some interesting topics, such as what it's like to get older in the society dating when you're older and scientific advancements in anti-aging products and even evolution and scientific thinking around aging and throughout it all we chat rant laugh about or adulting mishaps of which there are so, so, so many. So join us as we navigate our second quarter-life crisis.
Speaker 0 00:01:08 Hi, welcome to this week's episode of does this make me look old? Um, so today we're going to have a very interesting topic and we have our friend Taz joining us and, um, well, w we'll get her to introduce herself, but, um, before that, basically the topic we're going to be talking about today is biological clocks. Um, which I feel is often the very well, maybe it's not so female centric of thing, but I feel like as a female it's always been kind of taught most in a lot of our minds, but anyway, um, SIM you were interested in this subject, so, uh, why don't you talk about your, the reason you wanted to discuss this today, um, today, this week, this week? Um, so yeah, no, I think the reason I wanted to actually talk about it is because, um, you know, it, I dunno, it's like one of those things where I feel like we talk a lot about like, you know, um, especially in the workforce and things like that.
Speaker 0 00:02:09 Like I run into a lot of women in general or even men actually, um, who talk about like, oh, you know, the time is now to have kids or whatever the, the time they perceive it to be when they talk about, you know, um, different things related to having kids at a certain age or by a certain age, or, you know, uh, at certain stages of their lives. And it was actually interesting because a few weeks ago when we had, uh, the men's episode, uh, the two episodes, right, we had, um, our three friends join us and, and, um, and I remember raising the topic of biological clocks and being like, Hey, so does that, is that a thing? And it was interesting because it didn't seem to be much of a thing, um, for the men. So, so, you know, to your earlier comments is like, you know, it's tends to be, I guess, more female centric.
Speaker 0 00:03:02 I don't know. So anyway, it was one of those things that I was like, oh my gosh, we need to like talk about this. And in order to talk about this, like, and try and because I know my cycle and how my perspective has shifted or, you know, kind of, you know, changed over time, kind of a thing. Um, I realized I don't actually know about your perspective on this. Um, and then, and then I was like, oh my gosh, the perfect person to bring into this would be task. As, you know, having knows the girl can actually, you know, to speak her mind. So, and also she has a different viewpoint in the sense that she, um, unlike us, isn't child-free right. Like she has kids. So, I mean, she's just smiling. I'm like, okay, let's, let's start with you introducing yourself and then jump in.
Speaker 1 00:03:59 Okay. So thanks for having me. Um, I am Taz, I am 43 years old. Um, and I've known you guys for a long time now seems like half of my life, really. So you guys have clearly seen me kind of go through this, all the whole process. Um, I am 43. I have two boys, seven and three, and I had my first kid when I was 35. That's the relevant information I'm going to put in, in terms of this episode, I guess I'm also in the healthcare field and, uh, yes. So I've gone through two different maternity leaves and, uh, the other day, actually I was sitting there in calculating that, huh, I've been in this position for 10 years and I didn't get promoted. Fuck. Like I'm a loser technically it's eight years, but okay. Finally did get that promotion, but it was kind of funny that I was like, ah, so actually technically it's only eight years because I wasn't even there for it. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:05:21 That's actually a good segue. So I guess maybe we start off with, um, like maybe just starting off with the concept of like, what does, like, was biological clock a thing for you? Was that something you were thinking about, um, like right around the time that you got pregnant, for example?
Speaker 1 00:05:41 Uh, yes. So I think so I think the biological clock thing has kind of came in a little bit more to the forefront because, um, when I met my husband, we were both already in our thirties. So I was in my early thirties, he had just turned 30 or 31. Um, but before that, I think just like you guys, I went to the same phase in my twenties. I was like, oh, maybe, you know, one day I'll settle down. Maybe I'll have kids. And then I went through a phase, maybe I don't really want kids. Um, or maybe I won't even have kids, but yes, it did kind of come in a little bit when I did meet my husband and we both talked about it and we both said, you know, we do want to have kids. Um, and we kind of did a little math in our heads going, how so we're already in our thirties.
Speaker 1 00:06:33 Um, you know, we don't really have a lot of time, uh, in our life right now. So I think in both of us are me. At least I had always thought, oh, I'd meet somebody. I would date for a few years. Then I'll be married for a few years and then I will have children just to make the most of it. But I think when we met, I was like, well, actually to be honest, we don't have a lot of time to fiddle around. Um, and, and, and also at the same time, I think it was okay. Cause both of us, uh, in an interesting way, I had already done a lot of things on our own, um, as a single person or in previous relationships, sort of taking off things that I wanted to do before I wanted to have kids, which would be, you know, travel a lot, um, you know, move somewhere on my own, live on my own.
Speaker 1 00:07:20 And you know, um, a lot of these things that I kind of have thought that I want to do and that I wouldn't be able to do if I had kids. So for both of us, it was pretty easy to say that's not even an issue. We don't feel like either one of us needed to really wait. Um, so that was one thing that we were both on the same page about. And also, but also at the same time, I think because I was, you know, mid, oh, sorry, early 30. So I think I was 34 when I got pregnant. Uh, and I had friends who are, had their first kid at 40 and they had trouble getting pregnant. So, you know, you automatically think, oh, okay, it's entirely possible. We may not succeed in having children. So even the same conversation when we talked about kids and how many kids we wanted, we also said, it may not happen.
Speaker 1 00:08:14 We actually discuss things like adoption and IVF and like basically kind of cover those grounds, that how badly do we want children and, you know, very realistic sort of discussions that, how far would we go? Um, because it's, it's a real possibility. It may not happen. And that also, um, you know, if it didn't happen, it is what it is. So I think we kind of went in very realistically, but also at the same time, in the same phase that I had a friend in her forties who had some problem getting pregnant that eventually got pregnant. I also have friends who I knew from high school who, um, had fertility problems in their early twenties. Like she had like multiple miscarriages. It was all very heartbroken. So I also knew it's really kind of roll of the dice. So I don't think it was like a panic thing.
Speaker 1 00:09:08 So for us it was more like, okay, realistically, this is what we will try for. And there's only so far we would go, we don't have to have children, but we both wanted children. And because we were just in the right window of time, we thought, oh, you know what? We will pull for a child. If it doesn't happen, then we do this, this, this, um, and yeah. So I think our decisions did get made pretty early on. You know, we got married pretty quickly. I'm pretty sure some people thought is she pregnant? Is that <inaudible>
Speaker 2 00:09:48 Thought that because we got engaged within like a year.
Speaker 1 00:09:52 And uh, I mean, I didn't even have to say anything, man was like, ah, no, she is, I know I'm a south Asian. And she was like, oh, her parents know they're not going to let us stay for that long. That's why we're getting married. But for cultural reasons.
Speaker 2 00:10:11 Yeah, exactly. Culture reasons. Oh
Speaker 0 00:10:14 My God. Don't even get me started. It's just like, like, cause we've been dating for like four years now and she's just like, oh, if you were, if people or not even that they, people knew cause people know in India, but she's like, you're just lucky, lucky this isn't as much of a thing as it is. You, you live away like so far from them. Maybe that's why it's like not a real thing. No, I don't think so. I think my mom's just like that she just likes poking fun. Right? It's always like, oh, you know, in a Brahmin household, this isn't the case, this, this isn't how things would go. She might find random things like this. Isn't even just the want. And there's like all sorts of things. Like, you know, this isn't
Speaker 2 00:11:02 Your
Speaker 0 00:11:03 Father's household that would never happen. You're not a good, you're not a good Brahman girl.
Speaker 1 00:11:09 That's just like a given. We're never good enough. I know.
Speaker 0 00:11:13 I know. But like it's all tongue in cheek. She's like, she's just like, it's just funny. But so, so, so Taz, it's interesting because you, you touched on like one of my questions, which was like, you know, uh, about the sense of panic that might come like, or, or worries about infertility and things like that. So it sounds like you were taking a lot more of a practical approach. Like, Hey, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't right. And then we'll figure out, um, the situation then. But, um, but because you mentioned the career path, um, you know, oh that you like recently or evaluating like, oh my gosh, you haven't had a promotion kind of thing. Do you like, like, are you connecting the fact that you had kids with it, uh, with, with part of the reason why you think that that could have been, um, a delay?
Speaker 1 00:12:11 Well, at least I think, um, one of them for sure was because, um, you know, just around the time when we were, I was preparing to write this exam in preparation for the promotion, that's when I got pregnant for the second time. So it, it, it, it's not intention. I think it did become a thing because then I was like, oh great. I'm going to go ask for this promotion and say CA in a year. Um, and then I remember that I actually, I remember actually having a long discussion about this, uh, mainly because there were a lot of other things going on before that, that really pushed me towards getting this, wanting this promotion, um, that I remember talking to SIM actually about it. And I'm saying, Hey, you know, I'm going to ask and you know, uh, and she actually actually told me that you should push for it and make sure you have this promotion before you go on mat leave because it, they will try to delay it. And lo and behold, that is exactly well
Speaker 2 00:13:13 What happened because my boss was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3 00:13:18 A lots is happening. Let's talk back after you come back. And then when I came back and I'm like, okay, so remember we talked about the promotion and it's like, yeah, I spoke to the manager and you know, you've, you know, you just got back. So, you know, let's evaluate and see how you do. And I was like,
Speaker 0 00:13:34 See, that's the part that annoys me because it's a thing it really is. And it's, it's not intentional and it's not malicious, but it's almost like, uh, even if it's like, whether it's a budgetary concern or like, whatever it is like somehow, but they still use that as, as some kind of like a delay mechanism, you know? And, yeah, sorry, sorry. I'm like raising my hand. You may speak. Yes. I'm going to play devil's advocate. And, um, cause I'm just thinking about it from a managerial point of view. And is it one of those things where they're like, how serious is she about staying on
Speaker 3 00:14:21 One of those things? No, no, not, not in, uh, not in our field, mainly because they really don't want to hire new people. Cause you know, they come with experience and also in my case, this was my second pregnancy. There is no question of me going somewhere. I think they knew, obviously I'm coming back because
Speaker 2 00:14:46 You
Speaker 0 00:14:46 Don't think that they'd be like, oh, is she going to like decide to stay at home with the two kids or not that you're going to leave for another field or another like, oh, you're just going to leave, like leave, like leave the field completely.
Speaker 3 00:15:01 You know what I mean? No, no, I don't think so. I mean, it's not that that doesn't happen. Like definitely that's something that does happen, but I don't think that was the case for me because both my boss and the manager, who's also a woman actually. Um, both of them are quite aware that I'm quite, career-oriented in fact, the first mat leave, I didn't even want to take a full year. I took like nine months because I was like, no, you know, I don't want to be because nobody had gone in a mat leave with the department and I didn't know how they would be able to handle it. So I actually took a nine month leave and I was going to split it with my husband. I came back and changed it and said, no, I want to be, I'm not getting daycare. I'm going to stay for the full year.
Speaker 3 00:15:51 Um, so that happened with the first pregnancy, but the second one, like I had already said, oh, I'm going for, you know, a year or so at least for my case, I know that definitely wasn't the case. I think they were, um, just literally they just they're like, oh, you're back. Uh, maybe, maybe, maybe it's a capacity. Maybe they wanted to see, Hey, can I juggle this career? Can do the same thing. Can I put same amount of effort with two children? So I don't think it's leaving because the same thing also happened with another colleague who recently just came back from mat leave. And it was also angling for a promotion right before the mat leave or after. And I had told her my experience and I said, Hey, you know, you try to push for it. Um, and at the same thing also happened.
Speaker 3 00:16:40 She's back now, but they're also like, oh, let's see. So I think it's an ability question that they think you may be more distracted or maybe you have to leave more often. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but I know with our manager, she did give one person a lot of grief because she observed that this person was taking calls from daycare or had to leave because the kid was sick and it was very malicious. How the manager kind of handled it. She was like, yeah. She was like, oh, uh, she has a fever. You have to go. And she's like, uh, yeah, I have to go. Like my husband, isn't a shift duty. And she lives like an Ajax or something like a really far distance. So I, I think part of it given
Speaker 1 00:17:29 All of those, I think it's more, at least in our field that, that is it. They're a bit more like, well maybe you won't be as committed, so let's see how you do. And then reevaluate.
Speaker 0 00:17:44 Yeah. That's a bit unfair for like your colleague. Cause like, I mean you can't when your child gets sick.
Speaker 1 00:17:50 No. And especially because we were all like, but you have a child, this happened to you. You should remember this. Maybe your child is not young anymore or maybe it's not. I mean it, situations are also different. She may have had her kid with her parents. Whereas most of us, uh, our kids go to daycare and policies are very different. We stock up all our vacation when we come back because every time our kid is sick, we have to take a time off. Even if they're not sick enough. Um, we come, if they have a little mild fever, we can send them to daycare. Right. And this can happen moment. I have multiple times where I'm in a panic and I have a very important thing, both my husband and I have a very important thing. The next day we both have to go to work and we have a child with a fever and there's nothing we can do about it. Like there's nothing did they come on, let us, so it's a very real thing that does happen, especially in the first year when kids start daycare. So it's possible. That's my theory that they might think. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:18:54 They just want to see if you can multitask basically.
Speaker 1 00:18:56 Exactly. Okay. Exactly. I think they want to, which is stupid because I mean, you have to multitask. I have to pay for the daycare. So no you're working.
Speaker 0 00:19:13 The pandemics made things easier, so much
Speaker 1 00:19:17 Easier. Now this is why everybody, like at his, my organization had this recent people about this like work from home policies. And I mean, we haven't had formal discussions with the group, but uh, yeah, definitely the fact that everything we do can be done remotely. Everybody's very happy about this. And everyone's like, this is great. Usually in these particular cases you can totally work from home. So I think it stays at, at least we're parents in that regard has been, uh, has been a boon for sure. For my field. I go speak for all of them.
Speaker 0 00:19:55 Oh no, no. Yeah. Like for, for other other fields it would be different. Yeah. I mean, it had to be, if you have to physically be somewhere, then it wouldn't change. It still needs a sick day. Right. Like care of a child. So yeah. No, but I, I definitely do think that in general, I would expect in all, all in a lot of fields, right? Like for parents or caregivers in general, that, you know, if they're, um, that being able to work from home and the fact that, you know, the pandemic showed us that it's all possible. Right. Like I think it showed the bosses so much as possible to get things done from home. Whereas before I think that there was this expectation, or you're not as productive if you're not in the office kind of a thing. Right. Whereas now they're like, oh, actually people can get stuff done. And even, you know, if they're not physically in. So I think that overall, in some ways it's given that kind of flexibility to parents and of course it must be so much easier. Um, you know, where you're like not rushing and dealing with traffic to like drop your kid off
Speaker 1 00:20:56 Or oh yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I just realized
Speaker 0 00:21:03 That we never talked about this. Like, so what was, were kids ever in your roadmap? Um, I like, not really. It's like, uh, when you're, when you're little, you kind of have this idea of like, you know, getting married white picket fence, like two, 2.3 kids or whatever it is, dogs, cats, whatever. Um, but then like, yeah, I was a weird sometimes I think it was a weird, not weird at all. Yeah. I distinctly remember. I can't remember how old I was, but I distinctly remember at one point, um, as a tween, maybe like, I don't know if it was a teen maybe. Yeah. Tween, like anyway, so somewhere along that spectrum where I was like, my mother was cooking at the stove and I just, I was, I was standing beside her and I turned to her and I was like, I understand why women would have children. It's a parasite in your body and you decide to give birth to it. So
Speaker 2 00:22:26 I guess like, <inaudible> honestly,
Speaker 0 00:22:41 I was reading a bunch of medical books is that I was also a weird kid. And so I remember reading about like how the child would like, you know, leech calcium from the mother's blood and like all of these things. And I was just like, I don't get this. And then like when I was in medical school and I, you know, it went away like that kind of thinking went away and I was just like, oh, maybe I'd get married. Maybe I won't get married and have kids, blah, blah, blah. And then I did my OB GYN rotation and oh my God, I was so fucking traumatized. I was just like, oh, that's what happens during birth. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm not going to be doing this for a while.
Speaker 0 00:23:24 It was, it was eyeopening and like really, really traumatizing for somebody in their early twenties. Oh my God. Why would people go through this? That the biological, sorry, I, I I'll get, I'll get back to Taz. Like, I mean, I don't mean to sort of finish this train of thought cause I will always, I always wind up losing it and go off on tangents. But anyway, so yeah. And then the other thing was, was that like I remember, um, yeah, so I was on my OB GYN rotation freaking out, cause like everything was tearing and all sorts of fluids were coming out and it was just like Armageddon. And then like every point in like in my early twenties, because, because of the field that I'm in. And also because I did genetics as undergrad, there's all this talk about, oh, you know, when a woman hits 35, that's when, you know, that's when you can get increased chromosomal abnormalities, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 0 00:24:21 And so like, even, even though like I logically knew that in like that you should plan for having kids at least before like 35. Like I dunno the trauma of it all just freaked me out and then like, yeah. And then that's the other thing I remember in my OB GYN rotation, all the teenagers had no trouble giving birth. It was just like, they went into labor and literally an hour later it was just like, this kid pops out and everything's hunky Dory. And then all the women in their forties, you hear all the OB GYN, like all the, you know, I'm going to say old OB GYN. They're like, literally, probably like my age now, like forties. And they just tell you like, oh, these women in their forties were thinking they can have kids late in life. It's going to be a fucking long birth.
Speaker 0 00:25:04 They're going to be in labor hours. And so then they'd like pretty much like turning to me, like, and the implicit thing like that they were trying to like convey is like, if you're going to have kids have them early. And I was just like, yeah, but I didn't know, like life happens and you meet people and you don't meet people. And it's just kind of like, whatever. I feel like it's one of those things right now where I'm like, yeah, maybe I've missed my window. Maybe I haven't, whatever. You know, like I just kind of went, it doesn't matter. But anyway, I interrupted you Taz. No,
Speaker 3 00:25:33 Not at, not at all. I think that was wonderful. I'm
Speaker 2 00:25:36 Glad, I'm glad you mentioned it because
Speaker 3 00:25:40 I think that is the other spectrum of it that I wanted to bring up because I don't know if this existed before. Uh, but then now maybe because now, you know, I talked to a lot more mom and I, or I'm in part of mom groups and stuff. There is, um, two things. I think there's a lot more, um, acceptance and encouragement from people who have children and understanding, you say it's perfectly normal. Don't if you don't want children, like, I think our parents' generation was more like, oh my God, children are these magical beings. How can you not want them to complete your life? Whereas everybody, I know either they have children or they don't want to, there's this big thing where people are like, Hey man, don't have to have children
Speaker 2 00:26:37 Like have them. If you really want them
Speaker 3 00:26:44 Feel free to wait because they will ruin your marriage.
Speaker 2 00:26:48 <inaudible> per se. But change your marriage,
Speaker 3 00:26:55 Change your relationships. I think I don't. I think our parents' generation was always had this for whatever reason, this need to sort of say like really glorify it, right? Like they really glorify, um, you know, children complete you, you know, they, they are the thing that, you know, we must all want and you know, how can you not? And you know, that's, that's what we're all working towards. But I'm here to tell you that is actually not the case. I think for people from our generation and I'm the same age as you too, there's plenty of people we know, I know who are my age, even younger than me, who absolutely do not want children, which is a great don't have to climate climate wise, uh, Connie wise, I mean, is it really, do we need more humans?
Speaker 3 00:27:51 We don't. And I, I think even when I was young, I always did sort of in my head sort of think in this way that, you know, you people have children because they want to have children. Like it's, it's it's, to me, I've always stood by that to me, I think this is very much like a selfish self-driven need that we have because I want, um, you know, I used to even think like, to want your own biological children is almost like, oh, I want to pass on my genes. And I want to see a mini me. Right. I used to think like, why would you want that? I mean, there's too many children in the world just adopt. And then I went and read up on adoption and realize how difficult it is to adopt. So I'm like, okay, so I can see why you want to have a child because it's actually probably easier, easier, easier route than to qualify to, to adopt. So I got
Speaker 0 00:28:41 Really ironic though. Right? It's like, you, you, you need to pass so many tests and stuff to adopt, but, or not tests, but you know what I mean? Like there's so much paperwork and I mean, of course they need to be vetted, but there's just a lot of qualify of qualifications that you to meet, um, in order to be able to adopt, but not to actually have, um, to get pregnant. Exactly,
Speaker 3 00:29:04 Exactly. So that, that thing exists. But these are things that people I think, um, talked about, right? Like it's not, everyone was glossed over, oh, is glorified. And everyone's talked about yes, yes, yes. Labor is painful, but oh, you have this baby and you forget everything. But let me tell you like, same thing, like what Rashmi went through. I heard it from my friends who was in, who did her OB GYN rotation and came in, told me all the things that happened, which is why I was like, great epidural right away. If I ever have children,
Speaker 0 00:29:39 Oh God, I had, I had an argument with a couple of, about an epidural because he wouldn't let her and his wife had one and he wouldn't let her, I think he wouldn't allow her to have an opportunity. It was like not good, but basically I convinced them that it, I was, it was a very interesting conversation,
Speaker 1 00:30:01 Even this car. And that was it. I get, that's not something people also talked about you or you're not supposed to complain about bars or be scared of it. Like even this idea, the fact that like, when I told someone that, you know, I was actually terrified of labor, I'd never, I was a person in the mutter, in the prenatal class who didn't want to see the video. I don't want to see the video of them baby coming up,
Speaker 3 00:30:30 All the parents wanted to see this video. There was one father. We were both like,
Speaker 0 00:30:38 Yeah, I've watched many. It is not pleasant. <inaudible>
Speaker 2 00:30:45 The video, no
Speaker 3 00:30:47 Maiden. And I was like, hallelujah. And I remember being pregnant and, and my other friend, um, saying, oh, you know, I have this book about natural birth. You know, maybe you should just read it.
Speaker 2 00:31:02 I was like, no, I'm pretty sure I'm
Speaker 3 00:31:05 Going to get an epidural. In fact, my doctor friends had told me exactly when to ask for an epidural and I'm going to ask for the epidural. I had booked my kids naturally. And I'm using air quotes here because nothing irks me more to hear natural birth as if any other ways I'm natural. And it must be some, some defect in you to not do it naturally. But anyway, that's a different tirade on its own. But,
Speaker 2 00:31:38 But on that, but she was like, she was like, oh no, no, you don't force your
Speaker 3 00:31:42 Decision, but just read on it. And I was like, fine. Give me the book and opened the book. And the first thing is, oh, Meadows and flowers and how wonderful nature in. And I was like, slammed a book down, never opened it again. And I was like,
Speaker 4 00:31:59 All right, I think maybe we should call it an episode for this week. But you know, we've had a really great conversation and I think that, uh, we'll probably continue it next week as well. Um, so if you're, uh, interested in this topic and want to hear what else, uh, SIM, uh, Taz and I have to say then, uh, be sure to come and join us next week, hit us up on social. Please do, uh, we're on Insta, Facebook and Twitter, and you can find all those handles on our, um, website at, does this make me look old.com and you can email us at, does this make me look
[email protected]? Awesome. So cool. Uh, so I guess that's it. And, uh, yeah. Join us again next week and see you again. Talk to you later. Bye.
