Speaker 1 00:00:06 Hi, and welcome to season two of does this make me look old, a podcast about aging as gracefully as possible when you're just not ready or too
Speaker 2 00:00:14 Middle aged friends, one middle-aged friend and one friend who seems to be diluted about her age, who wants to discuss topics around aging as they're starting to become more relevant to us, whether one wants to admit that to themselves or not
Speaker 1 00:00:29 As well. I'm Sam, an anthropologist at heart Dory from finding Nemo and spirit, and basically never going to be the type to Everett,
Speaker 2 00:00:38 Maybe to be moved. And I'm sure a physician interested in the science and medicine around aging, but also interested in how society and the media look at aging. And if that means that I have to take the hit by reading gossip, blogs to find out I will do so
Speaker 1 00:00:51 This season, we channel our love for pop culture and talk about shows, books, people, everything, all through the lens of getting over.
Speaker 2 00:01:00 We'll be covering topics such as how sexuality changes as you age aging as a disease, and even how sex and the city approaches aging. Now that Carrie is in her fifties
Speaker 1 00:01:09 Throughout it all. We chat Lance and laugh, but our own adult illness.
Speaker 2 00:01:14 So join us as we navigate our second quarter-life crisis.
Speaker 1 00:01:19 Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of does this make me look old I'm SIM and with me, I have yet again, a fully voice normal voice Shiv. Hi Shiv. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing great. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:01:40 Yep. Hanging in there.
Speaker 1 00:01:42 Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2 00:01:44 Yeah. Well, I feel like nowadays that's all anyone can do just hang in there.
Speaker 1 00:01:51 No, I know mental health. Oh gosh. Like I feel like every person that I talk to is going through something right now, like 20, 22, supposed to be somehow better than 20, 21. And yet, you know, it's not, not good. It's just a little bit off somehow.
Speaker 2 00:02:12 Uh, yeah. I mean, I think it's just, it doesn't help that the pandemic is still kind of going, even though things are opening up in various parts of the world. Like I think that it's probably just taking a mental toll. I mean, it's been like, this is like going on the third year. Right? So like it's just, uh, just tiring I think. And I think people are kind of losing their patience with it. I think that's part of it. And
Speaker 1 00:02:37 Yeah, I mean, part of me is looking forward to when the masks come off and stuff like that, but at the same time, I'm terrified of it, you know, it's like, should we, but anyway, that's for another time and place we're just watching. So what are we talking about today? Shift.
Speaker 2 00:02:59 Yeah. So today I don't know how this will impact people's mental health, but whatever, I'm just going to talk about it because I'm kind of curious, like, interested about it. Um, so yeah, so this week I received a magazine. It's like the magazine that a lot of them met, like, um, a lot of the medical professionals get and they were talking about disability bias in medicine. And normally it's really funny because normally I wouldn't even bother I'm being bad, but normally I wouldn't even bother reading it because I'm actually not patient facing. So I didn't like it. Doesn't like, I don't think it technically applies to me per se because I, yeah, like I don't see patients, but then something about it just like, I don't know. I just felt like reading it, so I just read it and it was actually kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 00:03:47 Yeah. So they were talking about the disability bias in medicine and I was kind of curious to see what, what that was regarding. Like, I just wanted to know where they were going with that topic. And so they were, they were basically talking about how professionals, like our medical professionals can sometimes have a bias towards, I guess, not really looking at disabled patients as individuals, but just kind of like a collective disabled group. And then in some ways, treat them all the same way as a result. And also basically not treat them with regards to what their primary concerns are, but kind of dismiss them or pity them more than anything. And so I was, so then, uh, which I find interesting and I think it's not racist. It's not necessarily that there's a disability bias in medicine as there is a disability bias in society, which then trickles into different institutions, medicine being one of them. And then I was thinking about it and I was like, uh, I dunno, I find it interesting because it kind of, it kind of has a link towards age-ism in some ways. And it kind of clicked for me in some ways, because there was in the article, they were talking about an educator who taught, who tells her students to think, and actually she calls everybody like not just her students and, and patients, but like she calls everybody temporarily abled. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:05:25 Like as people, well, as what we consider
Speaker 2 00:05:30 Without disability today. Yeah. So, yeah, because I, and I think that that's the other, that's the other part of medicine that's kind of a problem or something that we kind of need to like check our biases against is that so like, I mean, in medicine, what a lot of us do is like, there's like a normal range and then there's things that fall outside the normal range and you kind of treat diseases that way. But then in some ways you can sometimes treat people that way too. Right. It's just like, oh, this happened to you and now you're differently abled. And like, so now I'm going to treat you as kind of like outside the range of normal, which can be a problem because like, just because you're differently able doesn't necessarily mean you don't have the same problems that quote unquote normal people do.
Speaker 2 00:06:13 So. Yeah. And like, it was interesting because there was this one, uh, in the article, there was this one person who had, he had a congenital, he had like a congenital disease, um, spinal bifida, which is a, it's basically where the spine doesn't fuse properly. So, you know, so he, he had a disability as a result of that, but then he noticed that when he would go to the, to the doctors, he, the doctor would only speak to his mother and not to him as a patient. Which, I mean, I would find that really upsetting because it's like, I'm the patient, I have the problem, like talk to me, you know? So like, so it's kind of like that, like, it's, it's interesting how that kind of disability bias will trickle in and affect patient interactions. So going back to what I was talking about, which was this educator calls everybody temporarily abled, and this is where it kind of fits into age and ageism.
Speaker 2 00:07:08 Because if you think about it, everybody's temporarily abled until something happens to you, whether it's illness accident or like just the vagaries of aging that changes the way that you navigate in the world. Right. And, and actually, if everybody was thought of as temporarily abled, then you would have, or you would hope that people would have the foresight to think, oh, if I lost this ability, then I could try to make the world a little bit more navigable, you know, like there's, there's all sorts of things that are in the world that kind of make you realize how things might be less easy to navigate when you're older the other day, I think I had injured my hand. And so I couldn't use my left hand. And so I was trying to open something and I couldn't open it because I just didn't have the strength in that hand to actually support it.
Speaker 2 00:08:06 So I was technically technically temporary, unable or temporarily disabled. But like, if that was like my permanent, like if that was a permanent situation, like that would be really difficult to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Right. Yeah. And I think that's the problem. I think that like in society, we think of everybody as quote unquote normal. And if you fall outside the normal range, well, then you're just rare. Like you're a rare occurrence that doesn't happen to that many people and really should we bother even trying to accommodate you? You know, whereas if you turn it around and think of us as all temporarily abled and potentially having the chance of losing an ability, then you'll, you might try to mitigate for that later on. Right. Anyway, that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1 00:08:51 That's actually really true. Like, it's funny because I just had a conversation a couple of days ago, a friend's father had a stroke and I know it's really upsetting. I mean, knock on wood. He'll be okay. But she was obviously very upset. So she actually mentioned some things where I was like, huh, interesting. Where she was saying that as children, we know that there's some things that we physically can't do. Right. And she's like, but that's the same with older people. And her she's like, I don't know why her. And she was just basically saying that she doesn't know why her dad just can't seem to come to grips with the fact that he's no longer young. He insists on living, working the same way that he did when he was in his forties. Whereas now he's in his seventies and with his business and stuff.
Speaker 1 00:09:45 Right. And it was just interesting to hear her, like obviously she needed to process, but she actually touched on all of these things. She's like, he's, he's physically not able to, I get it that, you know, he's mentally still feels alert and sharp and all of that. And he wants to see, but physically he cannot keep up his body doesn't react the same way, et cetera, et cetera. And so, as you were talking, it just reminded me of my conversation with her, where she was highlighting, how we do lose so much physical ability with the speed or, or the dexterity that comes with like, you know, that we're able to do, um, at a younger age. That just seems a little bit less optimal, I guess. Yeah. And I remember thinking like recently where those snow guy removal, guidance show up at our house last time that there was a huge storm. I didn't realize that my dad was going to actually go out and shovel the snow himself. Oh
Speaker 2 00:10:48 Wow.
Speaker 1 00:10:49 And he was bedridden for the next day. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:10:53 Oh yeah. Yeah. Full on. Well, I mean, I was helping shovel and like it's yeah. It's very, it's very taxing work. Yeah. And actually it's funny that you say that because that's why my left, that's why my left hand hurt because I think the way that I was like lifting the snow, like I think I was putting a lot of like pressure on my wrist and, and I think that's, and this is what made me think of it because I was just like, if I was younger, I don't think I would have had that injury. But I think it's because now I'm older. Like I think that like the repetitive strain of it actually injured my hand. And then I had like a very weak left hand slash left wrist for like a good two weeks. And I was just like, this type of thing is going to happen more and more. Right. You can't, you can't rely on having your full physical function for forever, you know?
Speaker 1 00:11:47 Um, I think like, as you were talking about the article and then like the findings from it, it was just reminding of both instances, like both stories and they just happened like over the last couple of weeks. Right. And I was just like, oh my gosh, that's actually true. But you know what else it's bothering me now, like, now that you've raised it, I mean, it's bad enough that people who are knock on wood where we've been lucky so far, you know, we're temporarily abled, I guess. Um, but as we get older, yes, we will lose some cognitive, you know, some physical functions or whatever. Right. But imagine people with an existing condition now. Right. And, and if it's tough for them during the younger years, it must only get tougher, I think.
Speaker 2 00:12:41 Yeah. When they're, when they're in there. Yeah. Like when they're getting older. Right. Yeah. No for sure. Yeah. It's but I think that's, and I think that's why we, as a society have to start looking at it in a different way. Like, cause I think that, yeah. And I, and I, and I really like that term temporarily abled because it's, it's true. And actually it's really funny because like she says that her students hate that term. And I think she said, I think it's because it makes them confront the fact that at some point they may not have the abilities that they do. And like, and the thing is, is like, but like, it's, it's so funny because as I was reading it, I was going through like this mix of emotions. Cause I was just like, I get it from their point of view, but really like what they should be doing is like looking at it as a way to kind of always think about that, you know, like, oh, this is, you know, like I'm doing this and it's being done this way because I have all my function.
Speaker 2 00:13:45 Like how can, how can we change it so that somebody who doesn't have it doesn't have this function can like still do what I'm doing. You know, I feel like engineers and interior designers and like all of these people who kind of like do work in like personal spaces and um, and you know, to allow for mobility and things like that and access, like, it it's something that they need to think of because I think, yeah, like I think we just all suffer from this kind of blindness around you fall outside the norm and therefore you don't count, you know, because at some point like, sure, like now in my, you know, like mid, mid forties, um, you know, like I might quote, fall into a normal range, but like, I don't know, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, like I'm going to fall outside that range.
Speaker 2 00:14:40 Like I may not be able to walk as easily or, you know, like have my full physical function or I might have cognitive decline. Like, no, like, you know, you don't know what's out there. Right. But like, you should try to kind of anticipate it. This is the thing like, and I'm not trying to minimize what's happening in kind of like the differently abled community. That's not my point. My point is that we're actually all kind of part of the same community because as we age, a lot of us will lose the function that we have and be part of the same differently able community. You know what I mean? So
Speaker 1 00:15:15 I'm glad you brought up this topic. Cause I just realized how little I actually know about policies in place. And, and what does that mean for different socioeconomic strata? Right. Um, like access to healthcare is something that I'm thinking of because you know, that poor people who already have limited access, right. What are the gaps that are existing right now that we probably need to address from a policy perspective? You know, certain populations are probably going to suffer even more as the
Speaker 2 00:15:48 Yeah. And it's true. Like the people, like, as you mentioned before, like people in that differently abled community, I'm sure they have their own kind of constellation of issues that they have to deal with once they age too. Right. And it may be different from like temporarily abled people have when they are like thinking about aging and I'm sure the access to healthcare and things like that actually do make yeah. Will make a difference. Right.
Speaker 1 00:16:13 Yeah. You can start off with like, uh, do you remember, um, a few years ago someone started this stop, the gap thing where they started putting up little portable ramps in front of store doors.
Speaker 2 00:16:27 Oh yes. Yeah. It
Speaker 1 00:16:29 Boggles my mind. Like I lived downtown core, like your old neighborhood as well. And just the number of stores when you're walking by that don't allow for that.
Speaker 2 00:16:39 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:16:40 Yeah. Imagine like, for me, if I don't move out of downtown as I get older and if I need additional support, we'll have the support. Those are the kinds of things like where I'm like, well, does that mean I won't be able to get into half of these stores going to today? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's narrow. It's cramped anyway.
Speaker 2 00:17:04 Yeah. Like if you have, you know, a Walker or like a wheelchair, like, can you navigate those spaces that, can you actually shop in one of those like small little, little shops? I know it's true. Like the one thing that is mind boggling to me is like subway stations that don't have access for people in wheelchairs. Like they're like for the longest time
Speaker 1 00:17:31 Addressing that also
Speaker 2 00:17:32 Now they're addressing it. Right. But for the longest time, like it was like, that's, they didn't have it. You know, there were certain stations that you, you would have to go either to like two stations down or two or two stations before, like whatever it is, like wherever they had the wheelchair access in order to like act like, you know, link it's, it's just so bizarre that you wouldn't make transit available for people who couldn't walk, you know, this kind of disability bias kind of goes part and parcel with ageism as well. Because like, I think the reason the society is a bit ageist is because as you get older, you do lose some functions and you become differently abled and suddenly you're invisible to the rest of society, you know? And like, I think that, I think that the two, the two groups have like a lot of like a lot in common and, and um, and it, it actually brings, it brings back that, um, you remember that, that list we, we talked about like way, way, way back in the day, about the who and how the myths around aging.
Speaker 2 00:18:41 Yeah. But like, I think like, as part of that list that we had like looked up, one of them was, was that if you look at aging, then it actually, or like looked at benefiting people who are older than you're actually benefiting society in general, because there are other people who are young that have the same issues that older people do. It's just that it's at a younger age. Right. So like, you know, like vision loss or hearing loss or difficulty accessing like cognitive issues or difficulty accessing like areas because of like physical decline or whatever, you know? Like, so I think that, yeah, like I, I just kind of feel that like, if we address the disability bias, then it helps people who are older and vice versa. Right.
Speaker 1 00:19:27 Not to bring in and just like that sex in the city reboot. It actually reminds me of the fact that I remember feeling a little bit annoyed when they made, Steve's hearing loss on the show, a source of a joke, Because that's something that actually happens. I mean, it's funny, but it's not like it's not funny in today's conversation context, but I kind of did laugh a little bit, you know, find it. I love like anyway,
Speaker 2 00:20:08 Oh my goodness. It's too funny. Like it's, well, I mean, this, this is funny in the sense that it's like personal, but like, I I've always had tinnitus. I don't know why. Maybe I listen to music too loud when I was young or something, but I've had tinnitus. But then I think I also have like associated hearing loss and it drives my partner crazy because I either have to have the volume up really, really high to put closed captioning.
Speaker 1 00:20:36 I have to put on all the time. I'm actually here half when people are talking to me and I'll be like, oh, what are you talking to me? And then I'm pretty convinced that my left hearing my left process, or here's less like I have hearing loss in one of my years,
Speaker 2 00:20:55 C and Mike. And as far as I, as far as I'm concerned, we're fairly young. So Yeah. But, oh my goodness. Like, I've been saved by close captioning so many times, and it drives me crazy if I'm watching a video on YouTube and I can't close caption it, you know, I'm like, why aren't you making
Speaker 1 00:21:18 Generated close captioning?
Speaker 2 00:21:21 I think my, my, uh, my phone has that. So sometimes I use that. It's true. Yeah. But yeah,
Speaker 1 00:21:27 Everything with closed captioning.
Speaker 2 00:21:35 Yeah. I like reading, but then the other thing is, is like, I like knowing what the writers wanted to convey, you know, like there's a reason they wrote something I would like not to miss it, you know? Uh, anyway, I think I've gotten derailed. I'm not really sure what my point was. Other than to say, I'm happy that there is like that there are accommodations for that. Right. Like I think that, uh, I think that we should, we should try to, like, we should just like, kind of look at deficiencies in society and try to address them to make things accessible for more people in general.
Speaker 1 00:22:15 I definitely agree. We definitely need to advocate, especially like, you know, just start giving back to society and their society for the, the force of nature. Is that all going to be when we age?
Speaker 2 00:22:36 I know. I know. Like I am to
Speaker 1 00:22:39 Actually age, but you know, in,
Speaker 2 00:22:44 Yeah. Well I think that that's like, I think that's part of it. I think everybody's just so scared of aging too. Like I think that like, nobody wants to think about it and then if you don't think about it, then you don't prepare for it and then you don't make life better for yourself. You know, when you age, like, it's just kind of, I don't know, it's not a catch 22. It's more like, yeah. Yeah. You just, you're not, you're just not preparing properly. I think that you just kind of have to face the fear. It's like, yeah, it's going to happen. Just like, let's try to make things easier for ourselves. Like as, as we age.
Speaker 1 00:23:21 Yeah. My back ache, like my per my backing, you know, the shoulder and backache, all that. Yeah. All the time. The constant pain. Yeah. So as a professional medical person, you think it's the worse, is that what I'm hearing based on,
Speaker 2 00:23:40 Based on, based on just aging in general
Speaker 1 00:23:43 And Anthony's, do you think it's going to get worse?
Speaker 2 00:23:47 Um, I don't know. I think it depends on whether or not, uh, like, are you doing exercises for it at all?
Speaker 1 00:23:56 So it's getting worse is what I hear you saying.
Speaker 2 00:24:00 I don't want to say that it may not get worse. Yeah. So that's basically all I wanted to discuss. It's more, uh, I don't know if it was like, it's not super uplifting, but I think it's just like something to think about as we, as we get older. Right. I mean, I'm curious to hear what our listeners think about it. Uh, whether or not you're going to bring temporarily abled into your vocabulary. I'm kind of, I'm kind of into it. It's like, oh, that's, that's a really interesting way of like, thinking about life, you know,
Speaker 1 00:24:36 Just a little depressing way of thinking. Like, like when, when you first mentioned the term, I was like, what? Like, wait, like who would we be applying it to?
Speaker 2 00:24:52 And
Speaker 1 00:24:55 I get it, but it was for a split second. I was like, oh, okay. Yet another label to add to them. But no, I see the purpose of it. I just, I just wish it wasn't an issue in the first place, I guess.
Speaker 2 00:25:12 Yeah, no, I know. I know. It's I know it's more like it's the, it's this inevitable March. Right. And so you just, yeah, but then at the same time, I guess my point is, is that it isn't an inevitable March. Let's just like prepare for what's going to be coming as opposed to just like yeah. As opposed to just ignoring it and just still continuing on the path.
Speaker 1 00:25:40 Yeah. I agree with that. Like, you know, like create a world that would make it nice and easy for everyone to live in. Right. So, no, I agree. No, totally. No, I am actually kind of curious if 10 people are going to start incorporating temporarily abled
Speaker 2 00:25:59 Into the vocabulary. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that they will, but I think that it's just something to, to think about, you know?
Speaker 1 00:26:07 No, it definitely makes you reflective of, you know, and actually feel grateful in a way that, you know, for what we do have weirdly enough, you know, for my, the healthy parts of me right now.
Speaker 2 00:26:27 Yeah. For sure. I agree. Yeah. I wonder if it's the disability bias that's affected. That is part of age-ism or if it's like ageism or if ageism is like considered completely different. I don't know. I think they're really, I personally think they're related, but, but yeah, we're kind of, we're interested in to hear what you think and uh, just yeah. Email us at, does this make me look
[email protected] or follow us on social on our website? Does this make me look old.com? Uh, so many last words? No, just, you know, uh, we look forward to hearing from you and until then talk to you next week. Sounds good. Bye
