Speaker 1 00:00:06 Hi, and welcome to season two of does this make me look old, a podcast about aging as gracefully as possible when you're just not ready or too,
Speaker 2 00:00:14 A little aged friends, one middle-aged friend and one friend who seems to be diluted about her age wants to discuss topics around aging as they're starting to become more relevant to us, whether one wants to admit that to themselves or not.
Speaker 1 00:00:29 Yes, well I'm SIM and anthropologist at heart Dory from finding Nemo and spirit, and basically never going to be the type to Everett
Speaker 2 00:00:38 Mitsubishi. And I'm sheriff a physician interested in the science and medicine around aging, but also interested in how society and the media look at aging. And if that means that I have to take the hit by reading gossip, blogs to find out I will do so
Speaker 1 00:00:51 This season, we channel our love for pop culture and learning and talk about shows, books, people, everything, all through the lens of getting
Speaker 2 00:01:00 We'll be covering topics such as how sexuality changes as you age aging as a disease, and even how sex and the city approaches aging. Now that Carrie is in her fifties
Speaker 1 00:01:09 Throughout it all. We chat Lance and laugh, but our own adult illness.
Speaker 2 00:01:14 So join us as we navigate our second quarter-life crisis. Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of does this make me look old? I'm Shiv and I've come back with my voice intact. So I know thank you for awhile there. I thought it was going to be permanent. I was like convinced. I'm like, this is now my new voice, but anyway, so it came back. Thank God. Anyway, so I'm joined here by Sam. Hi Sam. Hello.
Speaker 1 00:01:43 Hello.
Speaker 2 00:01:46 So welcome back to a new episode of, does this make me look old today? We are going to be talking about adult milestones. So, um, did you want to talk a little bit about that SIM? Cause I know this is a topic that was near and dear to your heart. You're the one who said, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 00:02:09 I mean, it's one of those things, right? Like where I think I was just thinking about it in terms of like, there are all these arbitrary numbers and ages, right? Like where we're supposed to do things by. So I'm just kind of curious, like, are those realistic in today's times, you know, starting from, I dunno, I mean, you have your obviously childhood markers, but do you have your life markers too for adulthood, right? Like first age you, um, I don't know, move out of your house or, uh, first a full-time job or get your first kid or married. What else am I missing? I'm missing a few of these milestones because clearly I'm barely hit any of them.
Speaker 2 00:02:51 Oh my goodness. It's so funny. Yeah. So Sam wanted to talk about this topic. And so we were like looking up articles and like weirdly, yeah, there are some milestones that are discussed in journals and like by governments, it's really, I I'm kind of floored by it because it's funny, like when you're a kid and you think about your life, you're like, oh, you know, I want to get married and have kids and have a house, you know? And by X age and like, I'm sure all of us do it in our heads, like by such an age, this is what's going to happen to me. You know? But these are actual milestones that are like, have been written down and put in government documents. Like there's an entire document written by the government of the United Kingdom in which they did talk about it. So like, I think one of them was like, obviously age of legal adulthood. So that's like a milestone which can be different according to different places. Although yeah. I feel like the majority of them are like between 18 and 21 and then being financially independent and then having a full-time job like the age at which you have a full-time job. And then the other one was getting married, having a kid and buying a home.
Speaker 1 00:04:03 I'm curious about the buying a home. What age are you supposed to do that by?
Speaker 2 00:04:07 So according to the UK, they, oh actually no, the UK also has moving in with a partner. So there's also like conjugal, like a conjugal partnership. That's also one of the milestones. So having a home. So they actually, the UK has moving out of your parent's home. So it's not actually owning a home. It's moving out of your parents' home. So that, I think for them, when they did the census, it was at, in 2017, the first age, at which more than 50% of young people had left, the parental home was 23. And so apparently two decades earlier, it was
Speaker 1 00:04:43 So they don't count moving out. If you're going away to university and live in a dorm, it's actually moving out out.
Speaker 2 00:04:51 I think so. Yeah. It's when, cause even when you move into a dorm, you still have to have a legal residence and that's usually the parental home. Right. It's not your own house, so yeah. And then I think, yeah, so then they have moving in with a partner having a baby, uh, getting married and they have, oh no, actually they do have owning your own home. So owning your own home in the UK, the average age currently is 34.
Speaker 1 00:05:18 Wow. Not bad.
Speaker 2 00:05:19 Yeah. And I think that's the last milestone. Okay. So then just to reiterate, so according to the UK, the adult milestones are age of becoming legally and adults starting full-time work, moving out of your parents' home, moving in with a partner, having a baby, getting married and owning your own home. Okay. So those are their milestones.
Speaker 1 00:05:46 So is owning a own home supposed to be equated with financial independence?
Speaker 2 00:05:51 I don't it. Yeah. So I think for them, I don't know. It's just like, it's, that's just their definition. I think in other definitions, financial independence is one of the definitions, but I don't know exactly how, like, I don't know how that's actually defined because it's financial independence defined by having a full-time job is financial independence. You know what I mean? I would think that financial independence is harder to equate just because like there could be several different markers of it, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:06:23 No, that is interesting actually. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:06:24 So, and I think that the other thing is is that this is something that's more easily defined. So like in a census you could always define when somebody has owned that house. Right. Because you know, like home ownership, like there's legal documents, you have the date of birth, you know what I mean? Like you can, you can actually calculate it out. Whereas I don't know that financial independence is as easily obtained by a government. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 00:06:51 Then you have to be easily standardized either, right? Yeah, yeah. No, that's interesting actually. Yeah know. Um, see, see, that's what I mean though. Like how do they decide on when you should have this attained by like, I feel like you can report on it in terms of who to, you know, um,
Speaker 2 00:07:09 I think that's what it is. So in the government, like, so this, according to the government article, like these are just the average ages at which this is happening. Yeah. I think that's all it is. It's just that, like, when you look at the media, I think they use them in order to say, this is what you need to do by this age. But like, I don't think that's what the government's saying. The government's basically saying that this
Speaker 1 00:07:29 Is when it does
Speaker 2 00:07:30 Happen. This is when it's happening. And 20 years ago this was when it's happening and it's changed. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:07:37 Yeah. Now that makes more sense, but you're right. Like in the media though, and I don't know why, but I feel like societaly, we're just sort of, somehow we just absorb these quote unquote arbitrary numbers and, and respond to it. Um, like I don't know about you, but like, you know, like sometimes like growing up south Asian, right? Like, um, in your twenties, it was always like about marriage, for example, it's like, well, when do you think like, oh my gosh, times, you know, going by, you should be married by now, you know? And you're like, why should I be married by now? You know? Um, but, but you would somehow, um, like they would create the sense of urgency, like, oh my gosh, if you're not married by the time, you know, before you're 30, um, like that, you're just going to be, something's going to be, you know, like you're going to be a spinster or something like that.
Speaker 1 00:08:33 Or the, you know, when you do get married, if you don't have a kid right away before in your, in your early thirties, like there's something wrong. Like, oh my gosh, like, why are you waiting? Like, you know, I have, um, like a couple of my friends who waited like almost 10 years, people were like constantly like, oh my gosh, but you're getting, you're getting so much older, you know? And you're not going to want to, you're not going to be able to keep up with your kids and like all these kinds of, um, I don't know,
Speaker 2 00:09:02 I guess community, it's more community pressures.
Speaker 1 00:09:05 So it's just interesting. So I think that's why I was kind of curious, like, it's like, is it a cultural thing? Is it like, you know, but some of it seems universal in some ways, you know, like wherever you are has like certain things like where they're like, you know, Tik, TOK, biological clock, or tick talk, you need to have owned a home by now, or, um, what's your 35 and you still live with your parents kind of a thing, you know? So we have all these expectations of people, uh, where we expect them to have hit certain milestones. So the own home, um, imagine, you know, um, hearing if some, you know, someone in their thirties or forties, uh, living with their parents, for example, you know, there's like, what, why, how, uh, why don't you own your own home kind of a thing. Right. Uh, so I'm just curious. So I guess that's why I've been thinking about this topic. I little bit,
Speaker 2 00:10:00 Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. It's interesting you say that, like, it's funny because like I never, like, I think I put those pressures on myself or not even really pressures. Like I think when you're like really young, you have no comprehension of time really, or age, because like, when you're really young, you, like, I thought that like 40 was ancient and like, and that by like 25 was like being an adult. Right. Whereas like, but then when you get to that age, you're like, yeah, this doesn't try. And the other thing is, is like, I think I also have like a very different, I think I come at it from a very different viewpoint because my mom's family and like, I'm seeing it because like, I don't really know my dad's family, all that. Well, like I know my, my mom's family a bit better, but like, they're interesting because like, it's, it's like a huge family of like, it's like a huge family of like 11.
Speaker 2 00:10:58 And so then like, and they've, and they've run the gamut because like, I think my oldest, like my oldest aunt was probably born in like, and th this is average because nobody really keeps track of ages or birth dates, but like, she was probably born in like the, I'm going to say like late teens, 20, like 1920s, ish. And so army, maybe thirties, hang on. How old was she when she died? Anyway, whatever, very old, like, basically like very early, early 20th century. And then like, you know, my youngest aunt obviously was a born, like, how old is she now? Yeah. Like she's probably born in like the early sixties or so, so like, it's a, quite a range of people. And so like my eldest aunts all got married very young because yeah. They're Asian and girls just got married young, but then like, by the time my mom came around, she got married in her thirties. And like my youngest aunt got married, like I would say like maybe even to her forties. So, so then from
Speaker 1 00:12:09 That quite unheard
Speaker 2 00:12:10 Of. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:12:15 Yeah, for sure. And like, and I fully like, actually, like, after my mother, like my mother was like, they all pestered her. Right. And even at three, like when she got married, like that was very old for them. Right. But like, she kind of set the stage because my younger it's like, didn't get married until much later. And so like, that's why for me, marriage was like, not like, it never even came onto my radar that I should be married at a certain time because I was like, well, they didn't get married until they were in their forties. So like, fuck this shit. Like, why do I need to get married at all? You know, like it doesn't. Yeah. Like that kind of timing really didn't make any sense to me. Like, it, it, didn't not that it didn't make sense to me. It was just like, it just never was on my radar that I needed to get married by a certain time, you know? And then, and yeah, the only thing that ever made sense to me in terms of like, timing was kids, but that's just because I was in a genetics program and they all, there's an expiry date on like, women's eggs. Like that's basically it. Right. Like, so basically, yeah. That's the only thing. So yeah. It's interesting that you're yeah, you're coming to it from like one, one side of it and I'm coming to it from a totally different,
Speaker 1 00:13:25 Yeah, no for sure. Yeah. No. And I think for me, like, so my aunts, most, most of my aunts got married in their twenties except for my mom. Believe it or not, who defied her family to get married to my dad at 16.
Speaker 2 00:13:42 Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 00:13:44 That was actually something that pissed off everyone in that family. My mom was married before her older sister, like her second sister. And so she was like, oh, well I just want to get married to this man. He's not a man. He's a kid too. And you're a kid. Um, you know, that kind of, but the other, my other aunts, they all got married in their twenties, but all got married by, in their early twenties, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Except for my second end, who I think got married in her mid twenties, like after she finished med school, you know,
Speaker 2 00:14:26 That's so old
Speaker 1 00:14:28 And it was like so old, like what she waited.
Speaker 2 00:14:34 That's so funny.
Speaker 1 00:14:36 But, uh, but yeah, no, it was, but it's not just the marriage thing, but just like life in general. Right. Like, I don't know. Like, I feel like a lot of the times you do hear about, you know, those expectations, like, oh, someone should own a home by a certain age. I didn't own my first home til my late thirties. How old was I? 37. I think Seven when I bought my first place, but I did move out. I mean, I guess that was the one thing that I was probably quote unquote, you know, in sync with what the average for you gay. I don't know what the average
Speaker 2 00:15:17 Oh, actually, yeah, let's look that up. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if I wonder Canada has those months.
Speaker 1 00:15:21 I think that's one of the reasons why it's kind of like, well, how do we land on these numbers? Because like, a lot of the times, like, like I remember 10 years ago, they were, there were all these articles about delayed transitions into adulthood where people blame to the economy and like, you know, the, the, the, um, internet, uh, bust, uh, like you remember the.com bubble burst. Um, um, and they were saying, cause like I remember when that was like, you know, when, um, I was graduating from university and people were like, oh my God, things are so bad. And you know, um, the, you know, the, the market's so bad and, uh, adults were priced at real, estate's expensive or priced out of the market and now real estate really is expensive. And so it's like, if you have all these markers to hit, right, how are you gonna do them if the economy and, and life in general is not, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:16:27 Yeah. I know. So, okay. So I'm looking up, this thing on stats can, so it's like www one 50 dot stack can.gc.ca. So they, so in Canada, they've, they've um, define the five markers of adult transition as left school. So has not attended school, college university either full or part-time during the nine month period between September and may left. Parental home is not a child in an economic family or a never married child in a census family. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but okay. Um, full-time full year work. So here they, they actually, I guess that's their marker of financial independence. So it's worked full-time for at least 49 weeks during the last year ever in a conjugal union. And so that's married, widowed, separated, or divorced I E ever married or is currently in a common law relationship and then has children, so has never married children lived in the same household.
Speaker 2 00:17:26 So those are their five markers of adulthood. Um, see, that's, that's the one thing, like, I think that if the governments have been tracking this, then I think that's kind of like, I don't know if that's what society has used as like a marker of having reached certain ad, like certain, like certain stages of adulthood, because if the government's been tracking this and it's reported like, oh, the average age of being in a conjugal union is blah, then like that kind of perpetuates it. Right. Because then it's like, oh, like, let's say the average age was 25. Then everyone seems to think like, oh, by 25 you have to get married because that's the average age. Do you know what I mean? I don't know how much of it is the fact that these are markers that are being tracked and how much of it is just like societal expectations. So, yeah. I don't know
Speaker 1 00:18:20 If you look at literature and stuff as well though, right. I guess that's societal expectations seems more prevalent than government.
Speaker 2 00:18:29 Yeah. But the thing is, is that if you look at literature, people were getting fucking married at like 14, 14, like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think that's being used as a marker of adulthood in any way, shape or form and like
Speaker 1 00:18:41 More, but maybe it would have back in.
Speaker 2 00:18:44 Yeah. But the thing is, is like things shift, right? Like I think like that's. Yeah. And I, and I just wonder if, like, I just wonder what the media is trying to tell people about quote, delayed adulthood. If the economic situation is such, that it doesn't allow people to do so, do you know what I mean? Like it's kinda like, is it just trying to say that, Hey, the echo, like our economics climate is poor and maybe we need to remedy that if we want to go back to a time where people are getting or feeling that they can, they're comfortable to get married and have kids, or is it, or is it just kind of like a, oh, this is, this is the latest thing that we can like freak people out about. So let's write about it, you know?
Speaker 1 00:19:28 Yeah. I guess. Yeah. I know. And that's a good point, good point. Like, I guess, you know, the, the subsequent question to that is like, do we even need to have these markers? Um,
Speaker 2 00:19:39 Yeah. I don't, I don't think you do because some of them don't even make sense. Like you can be in a conjugal union, like at, you know what I mean? At young ages it doesn't necessarily mean you're an adult. No,
Speaker 1 00:19:55 Exactly. And you can drop out of school and you know, I'm not have gone to college or university. And again, doesn't mean you're an adult, like
Speaker 2 00:20:08 Exactly. And like you could have kids at very, very young ages and that doesn't necessarily mean you're an adult either. So like, yeah. Like I, like, I don't know, some of these markers are kind of almost arbitrary. Like, I dunno.
Speaker 1 00:20:23 I feel like not just some, all of these seem arbitrary and I think that's, that's part of the narrative, right. That needs to change. Um, like I remember, um, at work once, um, someone was like, oh, do you have kids? And I was like, oh no, I don't. And, uh, we're the same age. Um, the, the person who mentioned it asking and, uh, their response was, well, I think you should really get on ahead because trust me, it's so much harder at our age, um, to, you know, and I'm like, okay, and this was six, seven years ago, you know, I can't even remember, but you're like, oh, okay, thanks. Like we should, that person said it, like you said, like, yes, there is a scientific reason, right? Like as in your eggs and all of that stuff. But, but at the same time though, like this whole pressure of like where there, they felt compelled to make sure that you knew it too. Right. And you were, um, rather than being like, Hey, listen, maybe I'll just adopt. Like, I don't know if I really want that, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:21:42 Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's all sorts of ways of having kids if you want them. Right. And I think that's the other thing that I find strange is this like need for other people or this compulsion for other people to like, make sure you're on track. It's so odd because it's just kind of like, oh, okay. Like actually my, I think it was my aunt. Like, I think this was when she wasn't married, but like basically like somebody, somebody had told her something, somebody had told her something along the lines of, oh, you're getting older. You might want to get married soon. And I think she was just like, oh, so you want me to be as unhappy as you are then. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:22:27 Ooh. Nice. Pretty funny.
Speaker 2 00:22:36 Yeah. So basically that's what she said. She was just like, oh, so you want me to join you in unhappiness? Is that what you're trying to get me to get married already? It was a pretty good burn.
Speaker 1 00:22:52 Like it's always surprised. And I think that's what I mean, like, I think we've as a society, we've somehow internalized a lot of these things as you have to have achieved them, otherwise you're not, um, you're not on track, you know, you've been getting wheeled by life somehow, and then you're kind of like, no, but I kind of already chose a different track for a reason. You know, Nobody wants to chug along in a, you know.
Speaker 2 00:23:28 Yeah. I know. I know. I feel like, I feel like a lot of these are just super, yeah. They're super arbitrary markers of adulthood. Like I don't think that it has anything to do with whether or not yeah. Whether or not you're acting like an adult.
Speaker 1 00:23:43 Okay. So let's, let's flip the script a little bit though. Right? What markers do you associate with adulthood? Or if any,
Speaker 2 00:23:57 I don't know that I do.
Speaker 1 00:24:04 What about having a job or the,
Speaker 2 00:24:09 But you could have a job at McDonald's at like 16. Does that make you an adult?
Speaker 1 00:24:13 Fair enough. Fair enough. Right. Financial independence then B
Speaker 2 00:24:19 Uh, yeah, maybe, maybe financial independence, right? Or like the ability, the ability, or like, oh yeah. Actually like, uh, you know, according to, um, you know, the UK where they like discuss like being 18, what that actually means like, and one of them was like the able, like the ability to sign legal contracts. And so like, I mean, like to truly understand and like sign one maybe because like you could technically sign one and have no idea what you signed.
Speaker 1 00:24:53 I'm like, I'm sorry, how many people are well-versed in legalees yeah, that's
Speaker 2 00:24:57 True.
Speaker 1 00:25:01 Even the lawyers aren't like fully aware of.
Speaker 2 00:25:05 I now see, this is what I'm saying. Like, I don't know that there are any markers of true adulthood, because other than like, other than independence from your parents, like if you can actually carry out a life completely independent from them, like where you're not financially obligated to them, maybe because like, because I don't know. I just see like so many people who are like, quote unquote adults, but they act like children and you're like,
Speaker 1 00:25:31 Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:25:33 Adult.
Speaker 1 00:25:34 Yeah. It's not lack of maturity. Right. So yes. There's some kind of mature. No, I know. And that's just it, like, I think, I don't know, maybe lately I've just been trying to think like, you know, like, like what kind of marker am I in the pursuit off now? You know? So I'm kind of like, just trying to think like what my next aspirational, um, threshold needs. Yeah. What should I be aiming for in life?
Speaker 2 00:26:07 Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I guess that's different for different people. Why, what did you think was like a marker of adulthood?
Speaker 1 00:26:15 No, I, I, I genuinely don't know either, but I was just curious. Right. Um, I think, um, for the longest time I did associate that, you know, like that financial independence for me was probably one of them, like, as in being able to own my own home and, and going, um, you know, like being like not having to worry about money as much was probably is probably one of the markers that I kind of find you I'm still chasing it, but whatever.
Speaker 2 00:26:50 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And speaking of cultural, like differences, I don't know that leaving the parental home is even a marker of adulthood. Cause like there are many children in south Asian cultures who don't, who choose to live with their parents and take care of them in their old age. So it's just like, how is like what? They're not adults because they haven't laughed. Like that's BS, you know? And also, yeah. Yeah. So like, yeah. So this is what I'm saying. Like, I don't think that, I don't think that any of these markers are actually like, none of them make sense. Like none of them are actually markers of, of, you know, like none of these are actual milestones of anything, to be honest, it's just like, okay
Speaker 1 00:27:36 At all. Yeah, there are markers, but they're not milestones, you know, you probably hit some of them and you know
Speaker 2 00:27:46 Yeah. And it's all dependent on the person, right? Like you hit the ones that you want to hit and like, and it's fine. If you don't want to hit it, you know, like, it's fine. If you don't want to hit any of them, you know? Like, like you don't ever have to be in a conjugal union, you don't have to have kids. You know what I mean? Like, oh, full-time work. How is that a marker of at all? I'll add all to it. Especially in today's economy. Like it's a gig economy now. So you have three gigs. Like it doesn't make you an adult
Speaker 1 00:28:13 Making me laugh about that. One is that, I mean, women and mass started coming into the workforce. Like what fifties? Sixties on right. More like the numbers have been increasing since then. But before that we had a lot of like Housewives and stuff. So what, none of them were ever adults.
Speaker 2 00:28:31 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, that's a whole other situation.
Speaker 1 00:28:37 I was just wondering if that would trigger
Speaker 2 00:28:39 You. I know. Well, no, because technically they weren't really right. Like I think even, even in north America, women couldn't hold credit cards without their husband's signature. Like without their husband's co-sign like until like the seventies. So it's just like, like, which wasn't that long ago. Like, so, so I think, I think in some ways society didn't think of those women as adults. I think they, they were thought of as like, you know, like full grown children that have to be taken care of by a husband. Like, um,
Speaker 1 00:29:13 So yeah, your day taking care of the house to take care of the men, but okay.
Speaker 2 00:29:19 And they're offspring. So, you know, anyway, it's, it's just, uh, yeah,
Speaker 1 00:29:26 I think that's one of the reasons why I was just kind of curious about like where we stand on this topic, because I'm like, I don't know. Maybe it's because my birthday's coming up that I'm kind of like getting to that mood, like, oh my gosh, should I have, have I achieved every thing that I'm supposed to have achieved? Literally looking at it. I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to have achieved.
Speaker 2 00:29:50 Well,
Speaker 1 00:29:51 According to this, I just want to get rich without stressing about paying it off on my credit card.
Speaker 2 00:30:02 Uh, yeah. Well, according to this, you've, you've hit quite a few of these milestones, so I think you're okay. Yeah. I don't know. I cut myself a lot of slack. Cause I think I thought I was gonna like have hit all these milestones by 25. And then when I was like 25, I was like, huh, I actually am not that old. And I don't think I should have hit many of these milestones. So I was just like, yeah, I think I'm okay.
Speaker 1 00:30:31 It's funny because for me, I think the milestones that I've always been chasing are more around like, I want to hit 50 countries before I turned 50 and only because the number sounds fun 50 by 50, you know, list of something, you know?
Speaker 2 00:30:48 Oh yeah. 40 under 40 or whatever.
Speaker 1 00:30:52 For me, it's like 50 by 50 50, what? 50 countries, you know, that's like a significant goal of mine. So that would be a major milestone.
Speaker 2 00:31:02 Yeah. I mean, I think that's a good personal milestone. Yeah. Why not?
Speaker 1 00:31:06 Yeah. And then I'll probably say, oh look I've no, actually I don't know if I'll see I'm 50. I'll just say hit the number before I turned 50. Yeah. I think on my 50th birthday, I'm going to tell people I turned 40.
Speaker 2 00:31:21 Okay. The fact that you've been on a podcast where you broadcast your age.
Speaker 1 00:31:34 Yeah. Well, you know, hoping that people will forget what I said by then. Goodness. Uh, I have issues. Um,
Speaker 2 00:31:47 Yeah. Well, anyway, all this to say is that there are these quote milestones that exist and they are being tracked by the powers that be. But I honestly don't believe in any of them.
Speaker 1 00:31:59 Um, but I am curious how many people have hit those markers and who believe in these markers. So
Speaker 2 00:32:07 Let us know. You want to know how many people have hit the markers?
Speaker 1 00:32:10 No, actually I don't. I just want to know how many people believe in these
Speaker 2 00:32:13 Markers
Speaker 1 00:32:16 You really should have finished, uh, you know, or got or achieved something X, whatever the marker is, you know, by the time you're 22 and 24. Um, I'm kind of curious,
Speaker 2 00:32:28 You're curious about, oh, whether or not people think it. Okay. Okay. Sorry. I was like, oh, okay. I it's true. Like, ah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Let us know, let us know whether or not you believe in these milestones or I want to know if people even think that they should bother tracking them. Like, I, I, I can understand maybe the home ownership one, it kind of is an, it might be like kind of surrogate for like the strength of the economy. Um, that might be, I don't know if it's a marker of adulthood. It's just like,
Speaker 1 00:33:07 How many people, like, what if your parents helped you buy the place? Or what if you borrowed a ton of money to buy that place. Right. Like, I don't know what it shows about you as an individual. If you buy a place.
Speaker 2 00:33:23 I don't think it shows anything about the individual, but I think it does help the government know that like, oh, if people were able to afford a house at like 22 and now they can only afford a house at 36, like there's some issues wrong. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like it doesn't matter, like the, the same factors are at play. Like you could have a crap ton of money at 22 or like gotten an inheritance or whatever, you know, like the same factors are at play. But the problem is, is that like now it's taking, you know, a significantly longer time. Like I think that, like, I think like I understand tracking something like that, but then actually, if there are government officials who actually track these things, I'd like to, I'd like to hear from them. Why are you tracking these things? What does it indicate, you know,
Speaker 1 00:34:12 Asking you to do this.
Speaker 2 00:34:16 Exactly. I mean, I wonder if that's all it really is, is that it's like just tracking the economic health of a country
Speaker 1 00:34:23 Probably is. I mean, I think a number of the articles that I did read allude to that, right? Like it's always due to the economy being, it's probably the most significant factor of like, well, how they track the trend of whether you're doing it on time or not. It's like not delayed it to adulthood. Your delays are caused by the economy or,
Speaker 2 00:34:47 But no, no, no, no. Don't you think that's a media spin on it though? I feel like, I feel like if the government is looking at it, they're probably looking at it a little bit more objectively, not like, oh, this is a marker of adulthood. It's more like, this is when this is when people are able to afford it. Now this is when people are able to afford it or like the like, and I I'm sure that like tracking child, like tracking the age at which you have your first child is also a marker of that, right? Like when do you, well, actually there's more factors at play. It's not just X. Right. I was just thinking about like the anyway. So I think that like a lot of that is just surrogates for some other measure of what's happening in the country. Right. There was an interesting article in the BBC.
Speaker 2 00:35:38 It's from March of 2021, it's called the tyranny of life milestones. It's actually interesting because there's a quote here at the end of the article where it says that, okay, so there's basically this occupational psychologist named Charlotte housed in, um, she's based out of Kent and she actually dubs like the S the social pressure of like reaching certain mind milestones as quote, the tyranny of the should. And she says that the gap between what recent generations think they ought to be achieving and what is possible in today's financial and educational climate is having a massive impact on their mental health. And so the, in general greater discrepancies between what people want and what they actually do reliably predict poor health and wellbeing. And so anyways, so this occupational psychologist basically says that people tend to make big globalized exaggerations, like everyone's getting married, or everyone has more money than I do, but basically it's a thinking error.
Speaker 2 00:36:39 And some people have more money and some people are getting married and that like, and she feels that a lot of people are struggling with like the fact that they don't measure up to what society's average standards are and that, and she says that, um, and this is true. This is true too. So like, just because you've reached those goals doesn't necessarily mean that even you're on track, that you're happy. And so she says that achieving these goals either by getting a high paying job or buying a nice home won't necessarily make you happy, it's about finding your fit. And she says that you need to take a moment to separate what it is that you really want and what it is that you feel that your parents or family expect, understand where your drivers are coming from. Is it you that wants to go to college or is it your parents? Is it something that you really want? And so she thinks that people should focus on the achievements that make them happy rather than those, that conform to societal expectations. So, I mean, I think that's like a, I think that's fair. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:37:40 I think that's, that's actually what it, well-written, it's a
Speaker 2 00:37:43 BBC article. Yeah. Yeah. The tyranny of what, what did I say? I said the tyranny of life milestones. Hmm,
Speaker 1 00:37:54 Nice. I'll have to actually read that.
Speaker 2 00:37:59 Uh, but I think that's basically what it is. Like I, like, I think that if, yeah, I think that if like people are focused on what the average person is doing and whether or not they're meeting up to those expectations, like, I don't think that that's really what we should be focusing on. It's more like what, yeah. It's more like what, what you think you need to do to make yourself happy. Right. But I guess that, that's the other thing that is difficult to do, because like, as you're moving through your adult years, you like, it's hard to tease apart what you truly want versus what
Speaker 1 00:38:37 You think you've been told,
Speaker 2 00:38:40 Like what you've been told to want, what society wants. Like, you know what I mean? And so, um, yeah. And I think like people who actually, I honestly feel that people who are truly happy are like the ones who have completely severed themselves from like what society wants and they're really focused on what they want and they they're willing to do the things that they they're basically willing to carry out what they want to do without really thinking about the other extraneous, like circumstances. I think that's like, I think that's what, like, yeah. I think that truly happy people, that's what they end up doing. Right.
Speaker 1 00:39:21 That's true. Um, I would love to actually have reached that level of what it, what is it call like Nirvana? No.
Speaker 2 00:39:32 Well, yeah. Nirvana's,
Speaker 1 00:39:37 No, it is completely different, but you know what I mean? Right. Like, I'm trying to think of what the word is that level of maturity, I guess, email where I can actually distinguish what I want versus, you know, what I think I should want.
Speaker 2 00:39:53 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think like all of us get caught up in it. I think all of us get caught up in it, like quite easily. I mean, I think that's what Western society mainly is. Right. It's like keeping up with the Joneses. And I think that as part of keeping up with the Joneses, like you, can't like sometimes, sometimes you internalize that kind of, that kind of competitive edge and rat race kind of mentality. And it's hard to separate that from what truly makes you happy because you think that all these external factors are, what's going to make you happy. Right.
Speaker 1 00:40:35 It's very true. Them's wise words shift.
Speaker 2 00:40:42 Sure. Anyway, yeah. So I don't know. Is there anything else that, you know, feel like discussing about life milestones?
Speaker 1 00:40:55 No, I think on that note, we should call this an episode.
Speaker 2 00:40:58 I think so. Okay. Yeah. So I, but I am curious to hear what our listeners think about life milestones and whether or not we should still keep measuring them whether or not they're total BS, feel free to write. I was going to say right at us, but maybe not right at us, right. To us
Speaker 1 00:41:24 At midnight.
Speaker 2 00:41:25 I know. Geez. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And ALS, and also I have like no comprehension of like social media and adding someone and not adding someone anyway, whatever. So yeah. So write to us at our email address. It does this make me look
[email protected]? You can find us on our social media handles, um, at our, at our website at, does this make me look old.com and yeah, I guess that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:41:58 Yeah. Thanks for your next. So confused to see anything else. She is tired. Ladies and gentlemen, speaking of adults who are little babies right now, she will need to go to bed.
Speaker 2 00:42:22 Are you sure? You mean me or you
Speaker 1 00:42:26 Today? I mean, normally it is me, but today, this year,
Speaker 2 00:42:33 I know. I'm just surprised that like, I'm just surprised we filled this much time talking about a topic that like, we didn't really have all that much to say about other than we think this is BS, but anyway,
Speaker 1 00:42:51 That is the moral of this episode
Speaker 2 00:42:53 Pretty much anyway. Yeah. So feel free to write to us and follow us on social. Yeah. False in our social.
Speaker 1 00:43:02 You can tell that she doesn't really use social as much because she's on social. What are they called? Uh, we'll see you
Speaker 2 00:43:17 Next week. Sounds good. Bye
