Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:03 Hi, and welcome to does this make me local, a podcast about aging as gracefully as possible when you're just not ready for two 40 something year old friends will find themselves kind of straddling that really odd period of time when aging and everything that is associated with is starting to become a much bigger part of our lives. We're definitely curious, but at the same time, rather terrified about aging I'm chef I'm a health science nerd and pop culture fiend, and I'm SIM and adult and waiting obsessed with finance and self-help books. We're going to be talking about the stereotypes of aging and how they affect us. And we'll also be doing some deeper dives into some interesting topics, such as what it's like to get old in the society dating when you're older and scientific advancements in anti-aging products and even evolution and scientific thinking around aging and throughout it all we chat rant laugh about or adulting mishaps of which there are so, so, so many. So join us as we navigate our second quarter life crisis.
Speaker 0 00:01:09 Hey, welcome back to another episode of did this make me look old? Um, so today it's so funny that we're kind of like riffing off of that music episode, but the one, but I, I remember like when we were talking about that music episode, I did say that we were going to touch on this topic and, uh, yeah, I'm kind of glad that we're going to be talking about it today. So, um, so yeah, so if anybody is wondering what on earth I'm talking about? Um, so the music episode, I was bringing up this arcade fire song right called suburban war. And the whole point of that song is just basically about how, um, friendships evolve and diverged and sometimes Wayne as you age. And, uh, so then that made me think a little bit about that song. It's, it's beautiful, but it's, it's quite sad.
Speaker 0 00:02:03 So then, um, uh, yeah, so then actually that, like, just because we do a lot of thinking about aging and how it affects us, it made me think about friendships as we age and it's true. Like, I think that, I think the reason that that song resonates so much is because friendships do change as you age. When did the song come out? You know, I think it came out in 2013 to 2014. Yeah. Did it strike you at like, I, I had never heard it until you told me about it. So, um, did it strike you then? Like, did it kind of make you feel nostalgic or, Oh, cause you're, yeah, you're wondering like, like seven years ago or whatever, like, did it, did it, did it impact you the same way? Yeah. Um, did I think it did mainly because, so I was in Houston at the time. And so, um, and I think that, well, especially as a person who has moved a lot over the, over the course of my life, you find that your friendships do change with every move. And so, uh, so I think it did resonate with me at the time. And then now that we're, you know, discussing, um, topics around aging, it's like, it's also like, it's just maintained at significance basically. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:03:26 I guess. Yeah. No, I see your point because you're right. Like friendships, um, I feel do change over time, but also as we get older, I feel like it does change as well because I'm going to ask a question and I'm slapping ahead of time, because the first time I had asked shift this question, being a scientist, that she is, she literally took me literally. Okay. That was a weird way to say it, but, but basically she took it so seriously because I'm like, yeah. You know, like, do you think like, like how many friends would you say? Like, you know, we actually have, and I think I just meant it in the general, you know, general, general way, but you know, speaking in generalities like, Oh, do you have a lot of clothes? Do you have a lot of friends? You know? And she's like, I can count my friends, you know? And she's like, no, that's so funny. No, I don't expect you to count them one by one. It just meant like, you know, do you feel
Speaker 0 00:04:29 The number of friendships, you know, it's changed over time. I took her quite literally. I'm like, I don't want to listen.
Speaker 1 00:04:39 Um, no, the reason I'm saying that is because, um, you know, like you have the obvious ones, right? Like, Oh, you know, you're really good friends
Speaker 0 00:04:47 School and you know, you sort of, or you go to college and you make really good friends and you don't really,
Speaker 1 00:04:52 No, they sort of wane off or taper off over the years. But I do think that, you know, when you talked about moving to different places and I've done the same, right? Like we've both gone and started a fresh in different parts of the world for at least two to four years at a time. And so, um, we ended up making friends, right. Like meeting new people and they were at different stages of our lives, um, different ages. And, but the process was still the same. Right? Like it was like going to university and you meet a whole bunch of people. Yeah. You have a really good time with a lot of them, but some of them start becoming closer. And then when you move to a new city or a new place, maybe a fraction of those you're still in touch with, on a regular basis. And the others are more like, Oh my gosh, it's nice to see you randomly, you know, Facebook message or something like that. So I was just wondering if that's a similar trend in the world.
Speaker 0 00:05:49 Yeah. I would think so. I mean, you don't even have to cause like I was thinking Mike, even over the course, like just over the of time, like, you know, you make a lot of friends in your twenties, you're going out a lot. You've got like, you know, like you're and because you make friends over shared interests, like I think it's easier to do so when you're younger, because your shared interests can be there even loose. It can be, um, that's a good point. Right? Because you are still finding yourself in like finding out who you are as a person. Like you're still not completely like experimental and open. Exactly. And you're not, I mean, not that I'm super stuck in my ways right now, but you know, like your personality sort of like gels over time. And so then, so like when you're in your twenties, I feel like you can have many different groups of friends because you have so many varied interests, but then over time, like as some of those interests kind of fade away, then like it kind of whittles down your friend group. So yeah. You don't even have to move. It's just a question of just using <inaudible> like, it doesn't have to be,
Speaker 1 00:07:10 Uh, quality, I think improves, you know, like, yeah, because I mean, I think that the friendships that I have now are a lot more meaningful for the most part. Right. Like, I mean, or maybe my definition of friendship has changed because like the people I'm really close to, I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, you know, like that's deepened over time, but I feel like my circle of acquaintances is still very big and very broad. And there is, um, you know, a deep level of friendship there as well. It just might not be at a frequency that I was used to as, at a younger age.
Speaker 0 00:07:47 And I think that also life puts certain constraints on the time that you can spend with people. And so you end up not being able to spend as like, you just can't spend time with like, I don't know, like 70 people, you know, that you might've known over the course of your time. Like at some point you have to kind of prioritize. Right. And so I think that's also part of it just because responsibilities that you have kind of, um, yeah, like you acquire more responsibilities as you move through life. And I think it's, it's, um, it just makes your, it just makes you value your time more and value who you put into your life schedule a little bit more writing.
Speaker 1 00:08:36 Yeah. No, no, that's true. It's like, when did you first start noticing that though in your life? Like you said, like when you heard the song, it kind of made you feel a little bit like, Oh, so clearly impacted you. Right. So were you already, um, noticing this trend, um, back then? Was that a new insight?
Speaker 0 00:08:58 Yeah, I think it was mainly because of the stage of, Oh yeah. So like this, this, yeah. I mean, it does bring up something which I want to talk about, which is also stages of your life. So, cause I think I had heard that song yeah. Like seven years ago and that's kinda around the time, like people are kind of settling down and having families. And so then, you know, you find that just because of these kind of shifts in what people are doing in their lives or what your friends are doing in their lives, it kind of makes it impacts your friendship with them. And so like for some people that means that, you know, maybe they feel that they don't have a shared interest with you anymore. And they, like, I don't want to say ghost you, but like, it's kind of like, they, the two of you just kind of diverged, but for some other people, it doesn't matter. Right. So like it's, uh, yeah, I think it just depends on a person's personality.
Speaker 1 00:09:59 Yeah. I was actually going to say that because I mean, I know like in movies or books or articles, you know, they'll always say that, you know, there's a period or the stage, but I'm kind of, and I think the stage does play a part, but I also think, like you said, like a lot of it depends on the personality because like we have friends who, you know, like maybe, uh, went the traditional route of getting married by a certain age and having a kid by a certain age, but we're still very close with them. Um, and I have those like, you know, um, in, you know, like in California and you know, in Australia and, and, and I noticed like sometimes with those friends, we may not talk every day, but it just, you know, but the, the depth of the friendship is still there.
Speaker 1 00:10:45 Right. And it didn't get impacted. And then the friends that we have here who, um, you know, have the kids or whatever, um, I think that, or even if they don't have kids, like whatever, but the point is like, I feel like, um, the, again, the depth is there that it's, it is meaningful that they made an effort. And I think that that's for me is, is the part that I noticed that some people you're willing to put in the effort for and like, and vice versa, they're willing to put in the effort for you. And so those are the friendships that sort of flourish and stay true, I guess, you know, and, and deepen over time. But then there were those friendships that, you know, sort of were so intense, right. Like in college or whatever in high school. And you're like, Oh my God, these are my best friends ever. And can't think of anything. And I think even now when I see them, there is a joy in seeing them. But, uh, somewhere along the line, I think it was like an unspoken thing where it was kind of like, well, we'll catch up when we catch up, we'll see you when I see you. And I don't know what it was or how or why it happens.
Speaker 0 00:11:56 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And like the, the quality of it changes. Right? Like, it's just kind of, um, it's not that you, it's not that you have, like, there's, there's no bad feelings between the time, but it's just kind of like, you just realize that they're not like you're not a priority in their life. They're not a priority and yours in that light and that's okay.
Speaker 1 00:12:15 No, that's fine. That's totally fine. It's like you said, you can hang out with 70 people every month.
Speaker 0 00:12:25 I guess it could be possible, but like, there's, I dunno for me, there's only so much time.
Speaker 1 00:12:30 That's why more than two friends a day. So, and I'm an extrovert and I think I would still struggle to do that, but yeah, no, I do. It's funny. But you know, speaking of putting an effort, like, what do you think would be like the right level of effort? I know it sounds stupid, but hear me, but what I mean is, um, maybe it's not the right way to say it, but I guess I was thinking like, how do you sort of determine, you know, how much effort to put in? Like, what if you're, you're putting in the effort, but then you don't see it reciprocated and then you kind of let a taper out or vice versa, right? Like someone's always reaching out to you once they hang out and you kind of go, Oh, but I'm so busy and, you know, I'll catch up later. Um, at what point, I guess I'm thinking like, you know, is the time to sort of call a spade a spade and say time to move on.
Speaker 0 00:13:31 I don't know. I mean, like, I guess that would be different for different people now. I mean, I, yeah, I don't have an answer to that. It's just, uh, I guess it depends on how much effort you want to do. Like, I don't know if you want to put in to keep, you know, reaching out to these people. Right. Like I, yeah. I don't have an answer for you.
Speaker 1 00:13:51 I was just thinking like, you know, sometimes you do see that in your life, right? Like sometimes there are some people who will reach out a lot and you're like, Oh, hi, how are you? But then you don't end up doing the same level of, um, impact back, um, and vice versa. I'm guessing, you know, so I don't know. I always just wonder, like, what is it that draws a person to do that and want, you know, and when do the people get the message?
Speaker 0 00:14:23 When are they getting the message through your basically go stigma? Is that it
Speaker 1 00:14:29 Put it that way? Let's just edit that, you know, I'm just being honest. Like, you know, like it happens right over time.
Speaker 0 00:14:38 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I guess it depends how much you value that friendship. Right. So, yeah. It's interesting. The other thing is, is that, you know, I was thinking about like friendships and how they change as you age. And I, um, like they've actually, yeah, what I found interesting is it's somebody who's actually done a study on it to figure out, you know, interactions between people. And, uh, yeah. So there was this group in, Oh, I want to say Finland, it's definitely a country in Europe, but I found interesting about the papers that they don't actually mean the country. They just say a country in Europe, but they actually used cell phone data in order to figure out like
Speaker 1 00:15:18 How many people you keep in contact
Speaker 0 00:15:20 Over, over the period of a year. And they basically, like, they basically parsed it out in terms of gender and they parsed it out over time and age. Yeah. And so, um, yeah. And so what they found was that, yeah, basically people have a lot of interactions with one another, like up until the age of 25 and then suddenly it starts dropping and then, um, women more than men and then at 45, there's another drop. And then, um, yeah. And then I think at 55, it actually, I think it changes a little, like I think it actually starts increasing a little because they, so they end up
Speaker 1 00:16:00 Going towards retirement. Is that one? No,
Speaker 0 00:16:02 Actually they think it's because, so, okay. So then they hypothesized that, the reason it drops at around the age of 25 and like women more than men is because that's when people start settling down and having kids and because women are more invested, you know, in like raising
Speaker 1 00:16:18 Children. So the 25. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:16:21 Yeah. Because women are more invested in raising the children at that time. That's when their social circles starts reducing. And then men follow me like a few, a few years later. And then, um, but it starts picking up again in the, in like the mid fifties, because that's when those people, well, not those people because obviously they were looking at cohorts of people. Right. So, but they had prophesized that like the people in their mid fifties are now interacting more with their family. So like their adult children. So then suddenly like their interaction with their adult children increases and they have, and they actually tracked like quality of time that they spend like using phone call, I think using like the cell phone data as like a surrogate for like how much time they're spending, like interacting with these people. It was it's, it's like kind of creepy to include text as well. No, they didn't. I think it was only voice call. It was only,
Speaker 1 00:17:22 So they really went straight to the heart. Like how do you, how many people do actually want to speak
Speaker 0 00:17:26 Exactly my mind. I think the study was like started in 2007. And so, yeah. I mean, that's the caveat, right? Cause like, I, I don't know how, I mean, I don't know how, what the proportion of people who texted and voice calls were at that time. Like, I feel like, I don't know, like I honestly don't talk to people. I don't spend that much time on the phone anymore. Well, I don't spend that much time on the phone because when they do, it's like hours, hours. So like, you really need to invest the time. But like, uh, yeah. So I spend a lot of time texting because like, you know, it's just, it's just easier to check up on somebody because it's like, you still want to, you know, keep in touch. But, um, you don't know what their life is. Like, they don't know like your lives are busy and you're like, you don't want to, I always feel like I don't want to subjugate you to an hour long conversation if you can't do it. Right. But you might feel obligated to talk to me because I called you <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:18:36 Um, it's so funny because I think for me it's more, um, I'm like I'll text and stuff, but it's, that's more of a, um, if I'm connecting with you really quickly, like, Hey, do you know where this is? Where are we meeting? Are we still meeting up or, um, you know, something like that, like something that can easily get resolved, like where it's more like a question and answer based conversation, but I do feel the need to like, sort of just be like, Hey, what's up, no reason to call just wanting to call, just to chat, you know? And I feel like I do that a lot.
Speaker 0 00:19:09 Well, that's
Speaker 1 00:19:11 Relatively for today's day and time. I think like, you know, um, there some people that I'll just call more often and be like, Hey, what's up? What'd you do with it?
Speaker 0 00:19:24 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's certain people that like, yeah. I don't know. I just find that the people that I call, like when we talk it's like for a long time.
Speaker 1 00:19:34 Yeah. I think for me it varies. Depends, you know, sometimes it's a 10 minute conversation sometimes.
Speaker 0 00:19:38 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that's been that's, that's definitely been consistent for me when I was a teenager and like, yeah, my family can attest to this. Like when I was a teenager, I was on the phone for hours that has not changed. I just don't do it that often. So yeah.
Speaker 1 00:19:56 Yeah. No that's yeah, no, I, I do. Um, yeah, no, there's some people that I'll talk a lot with and then there's some people, but I'll still call or answer calls, but, uh, but yeah, no, if it's like a regular conversation, I'll be like, you know, like, like when we were just, Hey, are you on your way? You know, like I'll be doing that. But then I'm like, why are you calling me?
Speaker 0 00:20:16 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:20:19 It was soon. But yeah, no, it did shift a lot more to text-based calm conversations though. So I'd be curious if they will, um, repeat that study, but with like a little bit more recent data, um, because I'm sure that, you know, with the advances to change, the pattern of communication has probably
Speaker 0 00:20:38 Yeah. Yeah. I think that doing it well, I wonder though recording the length of a call is easy, but then like actual, well, I mean, cause that's a surrogate for quality, but then if you start looking at texts that people are sending, like, I don't know how much of an invasion of privacy that is, right?
Speaker 1 00:20:58 No, but maybe not the content of it, but like how many messages do you send? Cause that would be a surrogate for the, the, like the volume of texts within that period would be a surrogate for a conversation. Right. So if you're texting back and forth for half an hour
Speaker 0 00:21:15 Yeah. As opposed to just like a quick like five minute texts yeah.
Speaker 1 00:21:18 Or a two second texts or like a, send a random text. Yes. No back, you know, like three messages versus 30, that might be a surrogate a way to sort of quantify that. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:21:29 Yeah. But I mean, yeah. Like, I mean, I don't, but yeah. I don't know what the, I have no idea what illegal legalities around that are, but it would be curious. It would be an interesting study. So yeah. Anyway, it's interesting that people, yeah. I mean, people, I think it was, Oh, you know, it's like
Speaker 1 00:21:49 Read about the article. Um, and I think it was a CNN article and I read about that and um, but I don't think I actually read the whole paper. No, not that I don't think I know
Speaker 0 00:22:04 It was published in the world society, open science journal. It's an open access journal and it's called sex differences in social focus across the life cycle in humans. Um, and the lead off. Well, so the first author is, uh <inaudible> and uh, the senior author is Kimo Koskie so yeah. Anyway, so I was published in April of 2016. So it's interesting that it's getting traction now if CNN, like,
Speaker 1 00:22:32 No, I think it came out around 2017 or something. I remember through article, but when we were talking about this, um, as a potential topic, uh, you know, I think I just, I was just like, Oh, I remembered this. And uh, you know, then a little Google search
Speaker 0 00:22:50 The article for me
Speaker 1 00:22:52 And can I still just, I was like, well, yeah, that's what the article was about, but I didn't go straight down.
Speaker 0 00:23:01 Well, you know, I was just like, let's go to the source and see what they did. But yeah, it's an interesting study. Like, I mean, it kind of, yeah, because I get tracks kind of, it's almost like tracking like somebody through a life cycle, you know, seeing how things changed. But yeah. I mean, I think it's, it doesn't a bad surrogate because like I do think that that is what happens. Like I feel like we, my twenties, I had a lot of like different varied friends and then it just, just kind of like littles down to, yeah. Just whittles down to kind of like the only, like the only the ones you do find like truly important now. Like, I mean, I would think that the pandemic has changed it quite a bit too. Right. Um, for sure, especially with, especially with social that the governments, like the governments were basically trying to impose on the public, but then that really puts everything into perspective. You're like, Oh,
Speaker 1 00:23:57 Family, it is probably really quantifying quality of friends then can you really want away from your siblings or your parents
Speaker 0 00:24:09 See what they were tracking in this study too? Right. Like a lot of people like over time, like really like family's the most important, important, you know, cause they had different tiers. Like they could, they could track the different tiers of like friends that people have based on the quality of their conversations. So yeah. Super it's interesting to at the same time, like super creepy. What were you doing exactly anyway?
Speaker 1 00:24:34 Yeah. I wonder what kind of, okay. I guess it's not relevant for this conversation, but I'm like, I wonder what hurdles they have to face to get access to that data.
Speaker 0 00:24:43 I know I'm curious too, like that kind of social science work that people do, especially
Speaker 1 00:24:49 Did people opt in to have their data collected and shared and used this way?
Speaker 0 00:24:56 Yeah. Because it was done through a cell company and they didn't actually say anything about like, cause it's aggregate data, that's the one thing, so yeah. Yeah. But like, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:25:07 Yeah. I mean, I, I'm just curious, like do we actually like in our contracts? Cause I Lord knows. I've never read my contract. I mean, did we just sign off, like our data can be utilized for research purposes, but you know, like I'm just curious,
Speaker 0 00:25:23 Allows third party, like certain contracts. Do you allow third party individuals access to your data? I have read that certain. I have read that in certain like consent forms really want to do, like if you really want an app or you really want something to kind of like you are signing away.
Speaker 1 00:25:42 Yeah. Cause otherwise you don't even get to use the app anymore.
Speaker 0 00:25:45 Yeah. Which is anyway. Yeah. Anyway, so I just thought it was an interesting little topic that we didn't chat about. You know, how, how friendships changes you age.
Speaker 1 00:25:55 We want to be interesting. It's not dark at all. I'm just curious, like maybe our expectation from
Speaker 0 00:26:01 Friendships also change over time.
Speaker 1 00:26:03 Right. Like I remember, I mean, do you remember as teenagers? Right? The expectation was you're going to spend all the time at school because you're best friends with like whatever 20 people, you're all traveling in packs and then you go home and you're all like calling each other and hanging out with each other and all, you know, going to the mall, whatever. And then, I mean, you're like together literally all the time, as much as you can be together, uh, you know, based on your, I dunno, curfews or whatever. And then you sort of go home and then you get on the phone, hang out with the close ones among the close ones and you know, you catch up with them and it's like, the intensity of that friendship is hilarious, but you know, and now it's more about the quality of my conversations rather than having to spend. Like I was telling you like some of my really good friends, like, you know, they don't even live in Canada. Um, but you know, every time I talk to them, it's quality conversation. And then I miss them all the time and you know, when important things happen, um, or even when not so important things happen. Like sometimes it's just like just catching up, but it's not like we were when we were like 13 years old, you know, where it's like, my life's going to end if I'm not hanging out 24 seven.
Speaker 0 00:27:27 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:27:27 So like the expectation is more, I guess, quality now versus the quantity of time. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:27:32 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, I think, yeah, that that's a function of aging too, right? Like, I mean you only have a certain amount of time and your friends only have a certain like amount of time to get to you too. Right. So, but like when you do decide to share your time together, it has to be, it has to mean some things. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:27:53 No, that's true. But anyway, let us know what you like, has your friendships changed in quantity?
Speaker 0 00:28:02 Are you making new friends as you get older? Right. Like that's the other thing,
Speaker 1 00:28:06 Actually, we didn't touch on that, but uh, maybe next time, but yeah, no for sure. I have made friends in my thirties, late thirties. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:28:14 Yeah. I mean, like I think that, uh, and good friends, like, you know, yeah. I don't think that making,
Speaker 1 00:28:23 Making friends is probably, uh, you know, you don't stop making friends throughout your life. I think,
Speaker 0 00:28:28 I think not. But I think that the opportunities to make friends probably are less. Yeah. Cause you don't, you're not spending a lot of time with people really anymore, unless you go and seek out
Speaker 1 00:28:40 And you're not doing the variety of experiences that are more open, it's more curated with your actual friends to do events, dinners and things like that. Yeah. No, that's true. That's a good point.
Speaker 0 00:28:53 Yeah, for sure. So I think that, like, I think that it's true. Like people do can make friends as they get older. It's just a question of like the opportunities, you know?
Speaker 1 00:29:04 And I have a feeling that once people retire, cause I find like my parents spend a lot of time with their friends now, at least on the phone or whatever catching up. So now that they're getting older, like I find like there,
Speaker 0 00:29:17 I think that's what the study was showing that like in the mid fifties and up like you start, cause I think you have more time. And so you're able to, you know,
Speaker 1 00:29:25 And they were like, Oh, our kids left us or whatever, you know, like you said more time to just connect with or remember, you know, and they're like, yeah, my parents are always like, they have these WhatsApp groups of their school, high school friends. It's hilarious. Like, you know, a 67 year old man, like getting all excited about like, well look, you know, so, and so sent me this meme, like he's reconnecting with a lot of his friends from high school and college. Yeah. It's cute. Yeah. But yeah. So let's like, let us know what your experiences with friendships have been or over time. I mean, yeah. It'd be interesting to know if this, if this study really is true, because really you're only hearing our experiences and uh, yeah know, and befriend us new friends with, uh, so we're on social media, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. Does this make me look old or website as well? And uh, uh, or you can always email us shift checks. It SIM does not. So our email is <inaudible> dot com, which is why I actually didn't even know the email address. You really want to type it all out. And then, uh, our Twitter handle is, uh,
Speaker 2 00:30:48 Does this make me work too? Whatever too. Yeah, that's it right till next time.
