Speaker 0 00:00:03 Hi, and welcome to does this make me local, a podcast about aging as gracefully as possible when you're just not ready for two 40 something year old friends will find themselves kind of straddling that really odd period of time when aging and everything that is associated with is starting to become a much bigger part of our lives. We're definitely curious, but at the same time, rather terrified about aging. I'm Schiff. I'm a health science nerd and pop culture themes, and I'm SIM and adult and waiting obsessed with finance and self-help books. We're going to be talking about the stereotypes of aging and how they affect us. And we'll also be doing some deeper dives into some interesting topics, such as what it's like to get old in the society dating when you're older and scientific advancements in anti-aging products and even evolution and scientific thinking around aging and throughout it all we chat rant laugh about or adulting mishaps of which there are so, so, so many. So join us as we navigate our second quarter life crisis.
Speaker 1 00:01:08 Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of does this make me look old I'm SIM and with me
Speaker 0 00:01:14 Here, hi,
Speaker 1 00:01:18 How's it going? Schiff, Not too bad, actually, especially after the last week. Um, incredibly tired, uh, podcast where we were kind of starting to ramble and become incoherent I'm in a better place today.
Speaker 0 00:01:34 Yeah. I feel like last, last week podcast was like ill timed, but anyway, close to your bedtime, you can going on like four hours sleep
Speaker 1 00:01:45 And like a crazy week, both you and I had crazy weeks that,
Speaker 0 00:01:49 Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm about to have another pretty bad week. So I'm like, I'm already like getting that anxiety we're recording on a Sunday. So I'm already starting to get that anxiety where I'm just like, oh
Speaker 1 00:02:00 God, I'm not ready for
Speaker 0 00:02:03 This week. Next week is going to suck.
Speaker 1 00:02:09 So I actually, I'm going to introduce this week's topic because I find it so hilarious. Um, so I just kind of want to set it up for our listeners. Um, so is that okay? Sure. That's totally fine. That's totally fine. Okay. So, so basically you guys might know, you know, that if you're into climate change and all of those, like, you know, we have the cop 26 and, and Greg Thornburg did, um, uh, gave a speech there. And, um, anyway, recently in the guardian, there was a podcast about three climate activists and you're very young. They're like teenagers, um, and you know, very, very happy.
Speaker 0 00:02:55 Yeah. So it's just trying to, I'm like, were they teenagers, but they work. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:02:59 They're like kids, like I think like one's like 13 or 14 ones, like 18, 19, you know, all children. And, uh, it's, you know, they're basically talking about young people and activism versus like, you know, how people are not doing a lot and it, the, the, the topic itself and, and perhaps the podcast might have been a little triggering for shit. Yeah. So I kind of wanted to delve into that and, um, listen and find out, like, what was it about the podcast? Uh, cause you're, you're heavily into, you know, um, climate change issues and all of that. Right. So I'm kind of curious to hear a, what was your initial reaction when you listened to the podcast and B Y okay. You did, and you feel free to add color to what your preliminary reaction.
Speaker 0 00:04:04 Yeah. So I was listening to this podcast. I forget what date it was from. I feel like it was from two weeks ago, but don't quote me. I feel like it was from two weeks ago, so I was listening to it two weeks ago and I was just like, yeah, I thought it's super triggering. And then like, I was like, I think we need to talk about like generations and I'm not necessarily generation generation divides as they like relate to climate change, but me sort of anyway. Okay. So I I'm just going to go, oh wait. No, no, I am. I guess I am, but like, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:41 There's a lot to unpack here. I feel so therefore, I kind of want you to take a deep breath At the very beginning once.
Speaker 0 00:04:53 So I'm listening to this podcast. Yeah. There's a, there's a bunch of things that I want to talk about because this podcast felt super triggering. Um, so let me start off. So I'm like listening to this podcast really interested in live, really interested to hear what these climate activists are about to talk about because you know, like the, the thread in the media is that, you know, the children, like basically the children are, are climate change future, right? Like they are taking on the mantle of climate activism, it's their world. And they're going to be, you know, they're going to be that the change that we need. Right. Which is fine. Like that's the, that's the media line right now. And that's fine. Yeah. I feel like that is like, if you just, if you've just been reading a lot around finding,
Speaker 1 00:05:42 Do you feel that's fine?
Speaker 0 00:05:45 Oh, I feel like, yeah, they're going to have to take it on because like a lot of us are getting older at the end of the day. Like the majority of like the really bad effects of climate change will happen. And I'm, I'm sure like, I mean, they're already starting to happen, but like, I feel like the brunt of it, but the really, really bad stuff will probably happen after I die. So yeah. Like I won't be around to take care of it. So who else is going to be, you know, it's going to be the generations. It's, I'd be like the people in the decades that were born after us. Right. Which is fine. So I'm listening to this listening, like super happy that there are these like super young, like kids basically who are taking on quite like large responsibilities in terms of climate change.
Speaker 0 00:06:39 I think one of them was part of like, um, a lawsuit involved in, um, child. So basically they, you're gonna interesting tact, which, what tak tak tak anyway, whatever, um, whatever that word is. Um, they took an interesting approach, let's say to tackling climate change, which was to Sue the UN on behalf of child's rights, which is like really cool. I was like, wow. That's like a, that's such an, like, that's such an innovative way of like trying to affect change. Right. Like it's not something that I would have thought of as a teenager. Like I'm really impressed that these kids are like taking these, like, not necessarily circuitous ways, but just sort of like it's a little bit like out of the box thinking in terms of how to affect change. Right. Unfortunately I think the, I think the lawsuits was quashed. So at the end of the day, like nothing happened, but, um, yeah, like, so anyway, all this to say super happy that these kids are taking over a super happy that they're like, you know, taking on this mantle.
Speaker 0 00:07:49 But as I was listening to this podcast and I, it wasn't the kids, it wasn't the kids that were triggering. It was the interviewer who was triggering. Yeah. So I feel, yeah. So I feel like the interviewer was like, because at some point he likes says something about how I feel like, and I'm paraphrasing here. So don't quote me like, this is like, this is like my interpretation of what he was saying. It's not verbatim. So then, like he was saying something along the lines of, I feel like climate change is taking is like, is becoming more, or is it becoming more important now? Like, compared to time, like compared to the future. And after that, I fucking lost it. The fuck asshole, I'm sorry. The climate change has since the fucking like, like, okay. The whole littering campaign, what, and I'm like, yeah. It's like taking care of the environment since the fucking seventies.
Speaker 0 00:08:56 Like since the seventies, that was an issue like since before I was born and then like, like, and then through my childhood, like, it was all about like don't litter and, you know, like, like take care of the, you know, take care of the rivers and lakes and like, you know, the land. And then like, and then climate change started becoming like a real issue in the late eighties, because like the ozone layer started, you know, diminishing because of like CFCs. So that was a thing. And then like, and then after that, there was, um, like greenhouse the greenhouse effect, which is what's actually causing like w which is causing our climate change right now. And then, and we talked about it all through like the late eighties and nineties. And I'm just like, this isn't fucking new. Like, it's not like, suddenly it's been invented, like in like the two thousands, like Al gore Al gore had that fucking movie. And like, we all watched it. Like, what the fuck man? I was so pissed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:09:54 Okay. Now it makes sense. I was wondering because when I was listening, when you were like, listen to it, right. And then I was like, okay. And then I started listening to it. And, and, um, I think one of the kids actually says like, why, like, you know, it isn't about a generally relational divide and they all referenced stories of new teachers, or in fact, you know, the inconvenient truth. Right? Like, um, they, they, they refer to those kinds of materials. So reasons why they learnt about this. Right. Like, or as in how they learned about, uh, as part of their research as they got into climate change issues. So, um, I was wondering about this because for me the triggering part, um, I wasn't triggered, but I was very annoyed by the interviewer. Not so much as the kids, because I was like, well, the kids, yes, they are, you know, they have that thing of you through where it's like, oh, we're doing it because no one else will. And I'm like, oh, like, okay. But
Speaker 0 00:10:59 It's like, you're kind of working on the shoulders of others because you don't know how shitty it was in the fifties. Like, just watch it's so funny. Like I still remember that scene in like mad men where it was like, you know, they all have that picnic. And then they just like, get up and leave. And the litter just kind of like blows off the hill. And you're just kind of like, and, but like, the thing is, is like, that's where it was like back in the day, nobody picked up their litter. Like, so,
Speaker 1 00:11:28 Yeah. And then, you know, people, you know, through the eighties and nineties, as you mentioned, you know, like, um, they started worrying about these kinds of things, right. The documentaries that came out during that time that tried to bring up all these, um, you know, health impacts and economic impacts of, of climate change and you're right. Um, but I was wondering where you were going with this, but now it's starting to make sense.
Speaker 0 00:11:56 Yeah. Yeah. So I found the interviewer super triggering. I was just like, what the fuck are you talking about? You it's like, and I don't know if he was like, and I don't know if he was doing it just like, I don't even understand. I was just like, you do realize you're wrong. Right. Climate change. Isn't like a new issue. It's been, it's been around for like decades now. And I, but the other thing I thought was maybe he was hoping that somebody would take the bait, which is trying to create a generational divide because one of the kids did the, one of the kids just like, I think naive, we took the bait and then like, started talking about how, like, it was hard to affect change among her family and how, like the older people in her family, I eat people in their twenties and thirties, like listen to her being like, you know, they wouldn't listen to her please in order to, to take care of the environment. And then I think one of the other girls kind of like brought it back and was just like, no, it's actually not a generational divide, really? Like, you know, and whatever. But like, yeah. I, I still remember, I think one of the, one of the climate activists then like try to, or not try, but I think that they mistakenly took the bait from the interviewer, but it was kind of funny,
Speaker 1 00:13:14 But you know, it is, but, you know, uh, I've actually like, just looking back, um, just like at recent headlines, you are right. That the media is positioning it as though, um, this is a new thing like that they've never come across and that's taking up like, oh my God, it's because of them that this has become an issue.
Speaker 0 00:13:39 Yeah. Yeah. I know. And the thing is like, it's not really like it. I like, and I don't know, this is what I have trouble like coming to grips with. This is like, why is the media taking this tack like tactic, because on the one hand, fine, I do get it. It's like, it will affect, it will affect people younger than me. More than it has affected me. Although I'm working like,
Speaker 1 00:14:07 Right. Like, like the, like the,
Speaker 0 00:14:11 Well, is it though? No, no. I'm going to put the technically is it because the thing is, is that if you think about us, like we're in like middle age, we could potentially live for another, like five decades as possible for us to live up to five more decades, which is a long fucking time. And so like, like sometimes I wonder if the media is just trying to almost forbid off on gen Z, it's just like, it's not really our problem. It's your problem, you know? So like maybe you should deal with it cause we don't want to, you know, and it's just like, I don't know that we should really be doing that. Like, it's kind of all of our problems. We have to kind of get our act together, get it done. I don't know, like the whole, like the whole like cop 26, like the whole, I dunno, I was just like reading bits and pieces of it.
Speaker 0 00:15:00 And it was just like, is anything really getting done? Like I know a bunch of them think that they're like, you know, putting a lot into action. And I was just like, yeah, but is it enough? Like I know like, like Modi, for example, like said that, you know, they were like, India was going to try to become, was going to try to cut down their carbon footprint by like 20, 70. And I'm like, that's a long fucking time away and it might be too late. So what are you doing? You know? Right by it all, like, everyone's just kind of like dragging their feet. And the thing is, is like, and I think what also irritates me is that, like, it, isn't a new thing it's been happening for like at least 30 to 40 years. And then, and nobody's really moving very much in order to get anything done. It's like you have for decades, like, we'll be fine. Maybe when it first started, you didn't really know very much about it. Couldn't get your shit together. And like in the nineties, like we started understanding a little bit more about it and its affects the nineties were sadly a long time ago. So like what, we've all just been twiddling our thumbs for the last 30 years. Like it's just really very frustrating. Like I get why Gretta gets upset. Cause it's just like, it's been a long time.
Speaker 1 00:16:18 Yeah, no, it has been a very long time. Um, but you know, I think you bring up a really good point. Like one of the things that worry me is that it's great. First of all, that a lot of corporations are now starting to talk the talk. Right. I don't know if they're walking the walk yet though. Um, they're talking the talk in terms of like, oh, we are trying to be sustainable. You know, we worry about three things. The three P's, you know, people, uh, profit, profit people and planet, um, it's a thing, right? Like where now they're like, oh look, we're going to start taking care of the world where we have all these initiatives to give back. Uh, I saw an ad the other day where they're like, oh, it's a coffee table made out of coffee grounds. Um, you have, you know, sustainable clothing, but I just don't know yet if a it's enough, but B um, I guess it worries me that we don't necessarily have the right standards and protocols and police or controls in place to actually ensure that they're all being, um, uh, like trying to do good for the planet.
Speaker 1 00:17:29 Like I just get worried that they're sort of almost cashing in on this trend overall. Like it's like, oh, you know what? Gen Z is like, they live by their values. But also young people are still learning how to do their research and stuff. And not to say that they don't do research, but you know, just being under the influence of social media, being under the influence of, you know, um, quick soundbites, how often do they rely or do we like, look, let's not even call it a generational thing, right? Like often are we influenced by quick snippets of headlines and you know, take dog videos and Instagram ads or whatever and say, yeah, that's good enough. It looks like a legit company. They must be right. And they must be green and ergo still given to that capitalism and consumerism labels stuck on it. You know what I mean? A lot actually.
Speaker 0 00:18:29 Yeah. Well, I mean, I can tell you like about my little foray into trying to be cruelty-free so like I'm like, so I mean, and I'm not that great at it. So don't think like I'm some Paragon of being cruelty-free, but like, like I'm really grateful that there are people out there who do the research and like look into it because like, okay. So for the longest time, I always thought like Mac Canadian company was like, cruelty-free that was their shtick in the nineties. When they like came onto the scene, they were considered cruelty-free now we sell in China. So basically any makeup company that sells in China is automatically not clueless. So yeah, because the thing is is that like China mandate not mandates, but like basically China, their law or their policy is that if there's a product that is sitting on their shelf, they can actually lift that product off the shelf to then carry it out, post consumer testing on animals.
Speaker 0 00:19:25 So if there's something that's being sold in China, like on like definitely on the shelf, like yeah. It's, it's, it's automatically not cruelty-free it doesn't matter if like all of the testing that was done pre like if all the testing that was done before the product was actually made is considered cruelty-free. So like everything's or chain could have been totally cruelty-free but the minute that you actually sell in China off, off the list. Yeah. So Mac is now sells in China, not cruelty free. So like, but the thing is, is that I didn't know that. And so like when I went through my like whole cruelty free, like foray or whatever, like I, uh, like, this is what I learned. And like, you don't realize how, like, especially now with like companies and how, you know, one company buys, another company buys another company and they're all conglomerates.
Speaker 0 00:20:15 So the thing is, is that like one company could technically be cruelty free, but then its parent company might not be. And so like, so then the question is like, do you buy, like, do you buy from that company now? Because technically like, like, you know, like if it starts getting really hazy. Right. So then like, so even in like the cruelty-free domain, you have to do your research because you don't know whether or not this, like, and then the other thing is, is that like, there's only like even the certification around being cruelty-free isn't necessarily like cut and dried something could be, well, I mean, you can get certification like through PEDA and through like, um, I think it's like leaping bunny, like, so like, if, so those are like definitely like certain certifications that like say that like this company has like passed through our regulations.
Speaker 0 00:21:03 And like we, as we, as like a certification company are calling this cruelty-free, but like a lot of companies. So for example, like Fenty, for example, calls themselves cruelty-free they're not pet up or leaping bunny certified. So like what's your proof that you're cruelty-free right. Like, so anyway, but like, and I find the same thing for like corporations, because it's just kind of like, okay, we're like, procline that like, you know, we're like pro climate and anti climate change, but then like, what are you actually doing? Like you have to like, yeah, it's just like so many levels of research that you have to do in order to figure out whether or not something is actually what it purports to be. Right. So, yeah, it's just a, and it can be a lot of work, which is why, like, just why, like, for my, at least for my, for me, and like the cruelty-free domain, I'm like super happy for like all of these websites that they, where they actually go through the research and they like call up the companies and try to figure out exactly like what, like where in the chain they are cruelty-free or not cruelty-free and things like that.
Speaker 0 00:22:05 So yeah. Like whether or not they sell, sell them mainland China, whether or not they don't, you know, that type of thing. So it's, um, it's interesting. Yeah. So yeah, the other thing I find funny is like, I like find financial people are starting to get into this whole ethical investing and ethical. Yeah. Like,
Speaker 1 00:22:26 And it's profitable now. Right. And that's what I'm trying to say, you know, like, right. Like it's great. I think, I think it's a combination. I think, you know, uh it's um, people who've grown up with, you know, like, like, like you said, like, you know, in the nineties, people started to pay attention. So, you know, like, you know, the more you learn, the more you start thinking of a, how to make it economically feasible. And then there have been people who have, um, been trying to do, you know, the ethical thing, but, you know, there's always going to be some kind of, I think for now, anyway, at least in our lifetime, there's going to be some kind of tension overall between the economics of it and the ethical returns of it. And the more we can make them closer and aligned together. So maybe those financial people who take up this mantle because it's, um, there's some profit to be made or because it jives with their ethical values, you know, it'll start becoming more of a thing and more of a way of life rather than,
Speaker 0 00:23:28 Yeah. I mean, like, I think Megan Markle and prince Harry are like put their, you know, like name behind some, like an ethical investing company. And I think like, that's, that's, it's interesting that there's an entire company that's like just built around like ethical investing. It's funny because like, what I find odd are, I don't know if it's odd or ironic or like, I don't know. There's something that just like jives and just gives me this weird feeling. But like, anyway, like I was talking to this financial planner of mine and like, so I told, I told them from the outset, I was like, I don't want to invest in anything to do with fossil fuels. And, and then they were like, oh, but our like ethical product has fossil fuels in it. And I was like, well, then take them out because I don't want to invest in them.
Speaker 0 00:24:14 Like, you know, like they contribute to climate change. I'm not giving money to oil companies. I'm sorry. Like, I don't care if the Canadian economy depends on it. Like that's not the way to go. So then like, like I don't want my money basically supporting this and right. But the funny thing is, is that like, they were like, well, and then this was the argument. They were like, well, but they're really profitable. Like, it'll take a chunk out of your, yeah. It'll take a chunk out of your retirement fund, if you don't, you like, that's not the point. Jesus.
Speaker 1 00:24:51 And that's, that's just it. Right. Like I think there's a long way to go. Um, so it's great that, you know, um, people of different generations are, um, or, you know, like there are more and more people getting into it and trying to move towards it. Um, but, um, you know, I can just foresee that, you know, that, um, there's going to be loopholes, there are going to be different areas, um, that are going to travel at different speeds towards this. Right. And, and it's going to take a while for, I guess, the world to sort of all level out and, and actually think of living a sustainable, cruelty-free a green lifestyle. Yeah. You know, it's going to take awhile, I guess.
Speaker 0 00:25:43 Yeah. Well, I mean, the other thing is, is that like, sometimes I wonder if it's also like a rich nation poor nation thing, because it's just like, I don't know, like, it's, it's one thing for rich nations to be all like, oh, we're trying to be, you know, green and clean and whatever, but like, like a lot, like for example, like in India, like a lot of the powers is, is driven by coal. And so what's the alternative. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just kind of like, okay, so now you're telling them, like, not to deal, like not to do anything using coal, but like a lot of like food is cooked on coal, you know, like homes are heated with coal. So like what's the infrastructure that you're going to give them in order to like, make the switch. Right. Like, it's just kind of like, I don't know. It's, it's like, uh, yeah, like, and I think that's the problem. Like I understand, I understand the need for change quickly because unfortunately the planet's warming up like very, very fast rate, but at the same time, like what are you doing in order to help other countries get to that point? You know, like anyway, it's, it's very long and complicated.
Speaker 1 00:26:56 It is incredibly long and complicated. Um, like one of the things, um, you know, like growing up here, I know that, you know, we, we tend to sort of like, you know, be a little bit judgmental when we see people, uh, with plastic water bottles or, you know, a lot of plastic in their homes. But, um, when I visited a Bangladeshi, um, I've noticed, you know, I noticed like that's a very common thing at home, right. Like in people's homes, but the thing is, they're actually reusing the same bottles and more they're using it for other purposes. So there's a lot of recycling reusing, um, things that they come across. Um, you know, however, they come across it, it's not like they're necessarily going out and buying it. Um, they might actually have found something and then they'll just use it. And they're not really thinking about, oh, it's plastic, it's not plastic.
Speaker 1 00:27:51 They're just sort of looking to see if there's a way they can utilize it and extend its shelf life or, you know, utilization rate or their lives. So, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's a function of not having enough money. Right. So they might, someone might give them something it's a box and that box will be in the family for generation, you know, when it's a paper box, but they've used it for storing like a lot of things, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's just interesting to sort of see how, um, you know, in, in countries like India and Bangladesh, like they might not actually know a lot, at least not everyone would write, like, especially, um, the poorer people, uh, they might not have the education to sort of understand like the implications to the planet, but just out of necessity are actually,
Speaker 0 00:28:47 I don't know if that's true. I think that like, yeah, I dunno if that's true. Like, I think it's more like they, they mean, no, it's just that they just don't there's no, like, what are you supposed to do when, like, what are you supposed to do when like, you're like, you can't win. You can't, you can't buy it or you can't afford it. Like, yeah. It's not that they don't know. I think it's that they, they may know, they may know very well. They probably see it all around them, but like when you're only making so much money, then you can't like, you know, like maybe coal is a cheaper option to heating your home than like trying to like, you know, wire it all up with like electricity and whatnot, you know? Like it's just
Speaker 1 00:29:27 Fertilizer fuel.
Speaker 0 00:29:29 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So like, it's just like, like what's being done, what's being done for the person at the ground level. Right. And I think that's the other thing that kind of bothered me about that podcast on the guardian, because like, I don't think they talked about the economic disparities. Like, it was just kind of like, even though they had an Indian climate activists, like, I don't think she really like touched on the economic disparities and how like, um,
Speaker 1 00:29:54 She was more like, it sounded wasn't she, the little girl, the girl who was talking more about influencing her family.
Speaker 0 00:30:01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was the one 14 and like, yeah. And she was talking about influence, trying to influence her older 20 and 30 year old family members. And then her grandparents, I think she was planning to talk probably in the
Speaker 1 00:30:14 Forties.
Speaker 0 00:30:22 Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I don't know. I got the sense that her grandparents were quite old, but like still, like, it's just kind of like, yeah. Like, yeah. And I think like they should, I felt like they should have talked more about the economic disparities. I don't think. Yeah, you're right. She probably wasn't at the level to talk about the economic disparities. And I think that was the, that was the missing part was like, okay, I'm really glad that you were like helping out with climate change, but like, I want you to be talking about how we, as individuals are going to try to shift corporations into thinking about climate change, because I don't want the lip service. I'm sorry. I don't care if you're a fucking corporation, you want to make a profit off of me. And then you're giving me lip service about climate change. Like fucking do the work. Like, I don't think it's just like, I don't know. I'm like, I don't like, it's like, it all caught me even that financial planner. Oh. But oil was profitable. Like I was just like, oh my God.
Speaker 1 00:31:22 So the overall topic of climate change that had you triggered more than the generation age generational thing.
Speaker 0 00:31:33 Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe like maybe the whole, maybe the whole topic was triggering or like, I think, or like maybe even the interviewers like need to like play off the generational divide, you know, like there is no I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1 00:31:49 Yeah. That was the part that I didn't like. It was great. I think the, you know, the kids overall, um, some were a little bit more mature than the others, you know,
Speaker 0 00:32:00 Overall
Speaker 1 00:32:02 Age and stages of life. I expect them to, you know, um, learn a lot more or at least expand their understanding and in a way, um, compassion too. Right. Because there isn't going to be a one size fits all in a standardized approach for, like you said, for out of necessity, for different areas of the world or a different economic know Culturally, there's going to be different, um, differences and, and approach and, and how things, you know, get adopted across the board. So there's going to be a lot of, um, there's going to be a need for compassion, I think, and understanding or all. Um,
Speaker 0 00:32:49 Yeah. I mean, I don't think that the kids were lacking in courthouse.
Speaker 1 00:32:54 It was more of as we moved towards it.
Speaker 0 00:32:57 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like I think that, yeah, I just feel like, um, there just, there just needs to be like a better coordinated effort. And when I was like reading this New York times article, and I wonder if this is like something that the media is also trying to play up, but like, you know, like they were talking about the generally generational divide between like climate activists and the people at the cop summit, which is interesting. It is interesting. But the median age of the people at the co-PI summit was like 60, I think only like 10 members were, were females. So it's basically like old white men are at cop 26. And like, and then the rest of the, all the time, it activists are tend to be like young and female, which isn't, which is interesting. But at the same time, I was just like, but is there truly a generational divide? I feel like the majority of people, regardless of age are actually like, like pro change in order to combat like climate effects. You know what I mean? Like, so I don't know that there is really a generational divide and I don't know that it really serves anybody to create this generational divide
Speaker 1 00:34:10 100% and the narrative needs to shift. Um, and you're right. Like, that's, that's the part, like, I think that, you know, that I guess I, I'm trying to sort of, um, say, you know, like, like let's just focus on figuring out like what needs to happen together and politics and corporations and politicians need to sort of, you know, put people ahead of anything else. Um,
Speaker 1 00:34:42 And I'm not saying like, you know, to be, um, stupid about it or, you know, like Willy nilly, like just jump in without thinking through, um, the solutions, but they need to be open to the idea that, you know, like you said, like maybe the profits are just a little bit less, um, you know, it's not going to, for the longer run, it's going to be the better solution. And so like, why can't we bring ourselves to, you know, temper down our expectations of how much economic growth we have to sort of, you know, see how much actual people, uh, wellbeing growth we actually have over.
Speaker 0 00:35:21 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And like, I think eventually the corporations will probably get it. I don't know how quickly they'll get it, but like, I mean, at least they're starting to talk the talk that's like one thing,
Speaker 1 00:35:37 Um, can compare, you know, it's, like you said, like, you know, um, like back in the nineties Mac was, you know, seeing, um, you know, um, that they were seen and that was his shtick was to sort of be cruelty-free for example. Right. And now it's no longer cruelty-free, which, uh, first of all, I didn't, I hadn't even known that, but, um, but it's interesting because they must have started with the right intentions, uh, you know, so it's like, how do you get them to remember, um, their, uh, starting values, their founding values?
Speaker 0 00:36:13 Well, but the thing is, is like, that's the other issue is that like Mack was bought out by another company, right. They're not like they're not original company anymore. Right. So like their values actually like may or may not exist as like company values. Like they're now subsumed into a larger conglomerate. So it's just like, and I think that's the other issue is just like the way that corporations work nowadays, everything's getting subsumed into other like larger and larger things. So really they're like, it's like a lot of things are just moving towards monopolies and it's just like, well, you know, I don't know that you can be as adaptable as a monopoly. You know what I mean? And like, and the, and this, I know this attitude that it's all about the profits. Like I think that has to change at some point too, because I think that there's like this divide between what's happening in corporations. And like, they're, they're, I don't know their philosophy, which is like profit above all. And then like, and what's happening on the brown level, which is just like, no, we actually do care about what's going on in our world. You know? So I dunno, I dunno when those two things are gonna actually like align.
Speaker 1 00:37:24 No, um, that's true, but I mean, hopefully, um, you know, even if it starts with tokenism, uh, you know, um, it'll start the conversation and start moving the corporations in that direction. You know, like I said, like already, um, there is like, it's no longer, at least for a lot of corporations. I feel that just from talking to top perspective, definitely not walking the walk perspective, they're starting to shift from profits above all to profit people and planet above all. They just haven't figured out what that actually means and the consequences of that drive. But at least by shifting that to the three PS, if you will, right. You know, um, it'll like at a very glacial pace, but, um, hopefully it is going to start moving towards the right types of conversation and building the right level of, um, values in.
Speaker 0 00:38:30 Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I guess we'll see
Speaker 1 00:38:33 A new generation who be forced to take on whether or not they want to, um, they sort of, you know, we'll continue to hold on steadfast to those values and say, Nope, it still matters to me, you know, when they reach their twenties and thirties and they become old, I think the oldest gen Z is like, what, 25 years old now. But, um, you know, so, uh, they'll start saying, yep. You know, it still matters. I still care. And I'm still willing to pay a little bit of a premium for more sustainable products and consume less. Actually, I think honestly, one of the biggest things we can do is consume less overall in general. Right? Like it's something that I'm trying to, I'm trying, but I, I fail miserably on a day-to-day basis not to give into convenience. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:39:29 Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the thing it's just like, and like, and this, this goes to like what I always rant about in practically every podcast, which is that like, like, I think it's like, it's, it needs like we need a cultural shift. Like we need a cultural shift, we need a cultural. Um, and when I'm seeing a cultural shift, I mean, in the sense that like, um, like our attitudes around work and life, right. Like I think that, and I think that it's because we do live in this society of capitalism, because like, ultimately like ultimately we are beholden to companies, companies that employ us. Right. And so like, um, and the pandemic will shift slightly. We'll shift things slightly because now people are finding like that. Um, they're having, well, now the thing is, is that on like, on the individual level, people are like, wow, I don't want to live this life.
Speaker 0 00:40:29 Like, you know, like it's like, life is too short. I don't, I don't need like, whatever bullshit I'm is going on. Like I want to like rejig my life. Right. And so I think like companies are starting to feel that change, like are trying, uh, starting to feel that the effects of that change, because now they're having trouble hiring people for same menial jobs that they did before. Right. Like before it wasn't really, you know, like the ball wasn't in the individual's court, it was in the employers court. Right. But now things are starting to shift. And I think like, I, I hope that that shift actually like continues for the better, because in one sense, like, I think that the reason that we live with so much consumerism is because, because of our lifestyles and our lifestyles are occur because of company culture. Like, so, and like, I dunno if this makes any sense, but like, if you think about like a company wants to create profit profit is created by getting as much work out of like employees for as little money as possible, basically.
Speaker 0 00:41:40 Right. And so like, the problem is, is that they, people are working overtime. People are working multiple jobs, so they, so then what that ends up doing is people are crunched for time. What do they do? They get depressed, they get anxious. They, they don't actually have any time. And then what do you end up doing? Buying things on Amazon, creating like, you know, excess, like packaging and issues for like the environment. Like, so I think like, I think it's all connected. Right. And I think that's what that's, what needs to change is to, is to break that cycle and just be like, this is not what we want. We want to live a better work life balance. I want to work. I don't know, like what I was supposed to work, which was nine to five, go home, be able to like actually cook a meal, go to a farmer's market, buy some good food, bring it home as opposed to like ordering or door dash or Uber eats or like, whatever the fuck it is. Right. Like, it's like, that's the problem. And I think that people, like, that's what we need to advocate for, which is just like cutting the fucking capitalist structure. Like it's just,
Speaker 1 00:42:53 I'm just laughing. Wow. This is Schiff, like literally taking a punching bag, uh, an iron glove and just going SIM boom <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:43:10 No, no, no. I mean, I can it too, right. Like when I'm working at the hospital, I'm like pulling like crazy hours and like, do I like, like, yeah, like I'm usually ordering like from the hospital cafeteria or I come home and we order from like, you know, whatever, like, but the thing is, is like, it's all contributing to its individual levels. It's, it's like creating poor health and like on a planet level it's like contributing to climate change. So it's just like, I don't know. It's just very,
Speaker 1 00:43:43 And, you know, um, taking the individual aside, like just to go back to corporations and companies, right? Like, um, I find that a lot of the times the onus is pushed onto us as individuals to worry and make changes. So I agree with you that, you know, yes, we want to shift the cultural mindset and, and advocate for, you know, uh, maybe slower living, less consumerism lets less needing to, you know, constantly seek convenience and speed above. All right. So I get that, but like the conversation really does need to start at the institution level, uh, like stop, you know, producing and stop utilizing and stop sucking so much out of your employees and stop promoting so much consumerism like that shift also in parallel needs to happen.
Speaker 0 00:44:48 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think on the one level and I'm trying to do this well, unsuccessfully, I'm trying to do this. It's just like, like, yeah. Like just like just try to take a step back and then just think about like what you, what you really need. Do you know what I mean? Like sometimes like, yeah, like, and I think that's that, that's the thing it's just like, yeah. Do I really need this? Or is it just like a want, you know? And so like, and I, and uh, I don't know. I don't know if that'll help because, um, you know, like, cause at the end of the day, like it's just like a supply demand thing and like people there's a demand then,
Speaker 1 00:45:32 But sometimes people actually the demand is created and that's the part that I'm trying to, you know, um, because we are underestimating how much demand is created for something. Right. Um, all the destructor industries and products that we think of, um, people didn't actually know about it. Didn't know how to think about it. We didn't have, we're not we're imaginative, but we weren't that imaginative, you know, but it was created for us. And then all of a sudden we're like, Ooh, now we can want it. And um, so I think that's the part where I'm like, well, that would be nice to not constantly feel like you have to have the next latest version of product X and product not to innovate. And that it's not to say don't improve, but you can't constantly push for minuscule improvements. And exactly.
Speaker 0 00:46:33 Yeah. Yeah. I know. I was thinking about my phone actually with that, you know, it's just kind of like, okay, so now I have a, you know, 12.5 giga pixel camera, as opposed to a 12 did a pixel count. You know what I mean? It's kind of like, okay, like why, why do you need this?
Speaker 1 00:46:54 Yeah. You have like nine cameras embedded into your phone. It's like, oh great. Wonderful. Now what
Speaker 0 00:47:04 I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. And it's true. I know it's true. Like, like, and I think like, I think, I think of all the things that something like your phone can give you now, especially back in the day when like literally like having a cell phone was a big deal where you could just like call that was the thing you could just call. And that was pretty amazing. And now it's just like, it's a little mini computer and I can take pictures and you know, like it's just become this like seamless part of your life. But at the same time, it's just like the destruction on the planet that happens. Like simply because you have a phone, like it's just,
Speaker 1 00:47:39 And simply because you keep them sitting you phone every nine months.
Speaker 0 00:47:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then like, that's the thing, it's just like, why, why are you creating these minuscule changes? And then giving people the option of like, upgrading, like, why don't you like actually make a massive change, like three years down the line, but it's because you need to make a profit for that.
Speaker 1 00:48:03 And that's that short term value lusting after, you know?
Speaker 0 00:48:09 Yeah. Yeah. I know. And I mean, at least in the Western world, that's the other issue is that everything is based on, short-term like even in our political system, like our political system, people only last for like four to five years and it's just like, and that's all they think about. Right. They only think about the short term as opposed to like thinking long-term like 20, 30 years out and what they want to accomplish, you know? So it's just, and I think like it all kind of feeds into 1, 101 another. You know,
Speaker 1 00:48:40 I have to say that, um, when I started, um, like when I thought we were starting this episode today was going to be like more about, oh my gosh, you know, these different age generations approach, climate change differently, but I'm glad to see that it's actually not, it's the opposite, it's that, you know, age, um, doesn't have an impact necessarily on, um, how people feel about, you know, climate change or at least how you and I feel about climate change. We're not going to be labeled and, and categorized and bucketed as, you know, people who don't care or people who are unwilling to make changes simply as, as, um, you know, thing about our age. Right. Like as, um, because of our age. So I think that that's actually good.
Speaker 0 00:49:36 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Like in the day, like I wasn't actually upset at yeah. I wasn't upset at the, um, kids at all, like here, I'm calling them kids, these women
Speaker 1 00:49:50 You denied that is disrespectful. No, there are young women, um, you know, making a fantastic impact on
Speaker 0 00:50:03 Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. So like, yeah. So really like with regard to that podcast, it really had nothing to do with those. Yeah. With those young women, it was more, I think it was more the way it was being framed. Like it was being framed as this generational divide and it was being free and climate change was being framed as this new phenomenon. And it was like, it's not a new phenomenon.
Speaker 1 00:50:29 Yeah. You're absolutely right. It isn't a new phenomenon and you know, people have been advocating for change. And it's the work of those people throughout the last 40 years that have led to this moment where our younger generation is in a position to speak up because to them, it seems logical. And it seems like, you know, something that is a must have as part of their lives and it's the work that has been put in place, the foundational work. Right.
Speaker 0 00:51:00 Yeah. Anyway, I think we should call that an episode after everyone was like, listen to me, rant for like 20 minutes in a very, very incoherent manner.
Speaker 1 00:51:10 I think it's about the passion you feel. Right. Which actually is very heartwarming. I think.
Speaker 0 00:51:16 Aw, that's sweet. All those swear words are actually because I'm passionate.
Speaker 1 00:51:24 We know that, you know, um, it is a reflection of, of, you know, how you feel about the planet and, and idiots around the world who don't actually take care of it.
Speaker 0 00:51:37 Yeah. It's like, you just want, like, at least, I dunno, this is how I feel personally, but it's just like, you want your political leaders to do better, you know, because at the end of the day, at the end of the day, yeah. We can all do our own like individual part. But like, I think there needs to be like the infrastructure there in order to help people do their part, you know, like
Speaker 1 00:52:01 A different day. Because Like, as someone who was a lot more vocal about her stances, when she was younger, I eat, you know, when I was younger, um, I like the way I talk about politics and politicians now that's what that sense of resignation. It's kind of like, if you're not as evil as Trump, I give you a pass, you know, Disappointed in myself for saying that. But honestly, like I feel like in the last five years or six years, there were so many awful situations around the world. Right. And so many awful leaders and things that politicians supported or said that at this point, when I see something that deviates from those messages, I'm more lenient and forgiving Holding them to a higher accountability. That seems like a luxury. I CA I feel like I, we don't have.
Speaker 0 00:53:13 Yeah. Which is sad. That's the sad state of our political system now is that we can't actually hold people to like an even higher standard
Speaker 1 00:53:22 Recent election. I, it was like, what the fuck, man? You guys all fucking slob Anyway, another rant and not going to give away and show how jaded I have become, uh, when it comes to politics. So,
Speaker 0 00:53:42 Yeah. Although I think that should be an episode. Cause I, yeah, like
Speaker 1 00:53:46 Right now me, you know how you were rambling and ranting and coherently, that's going to be politics, us politics, world politics. I'll get like all upset.
Speaker 0 00:54:02 Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Actually I wasn't going to even touch the politics part, but I'm curious. Well, I'm just curious or to like delve into like how people's, I don't know if it's activism or like fire or passion or something like changes over time because I had this conversation with others, which is just like, when you're younger, you have this kind of like idealism and like, does it change over time?
Speaker 1 00:54:32 I think it does. That is no, we are going to start the rest of this.
Speaker 0 00:54:46 Exactly. Anyway. Um, so yeah, so follow us on social. You can find our social handles on our website. It does this make me look old.com and um, yeah, if you want to email us, uh, please feel free to, I guess, rent with us at us at, does this make me look
[email protected], but so I guess that's it join us again next week for another episode of this is make me look old.
Speaker 1 00:55:16 Bye.
Speaker 0 00:55:17 Bye.
