Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Hi, and welcome to does this make me local, a podcast about aging as gracefully as possible when you're just not ready for two 40 something year old friends will find themselves kind of straddling that really odd period of time when aging and everything that it's associated with is starting to become a much bigger part of our lives. We're definitely curious, but at the same time, rather terrified about aging. I'm Schiff. I'm a health science nerd and pop culture themes, and I'm sin and adult and waiting obsessed with finance and self-help books. We're going to be talking about the stereotypes of aging and how they affect us. And we'll also be doing some deeper dives into some interesting topics, such as what it's like to get old in the society dating when you're older and scientific advancements in anti-aging products and even evolution and scientific thinking around aging and throughout it all we chat rant laugh about or adulting mishaps of which there are so, so, so many. So join us as we navigate our second quarter life crisis.
Speaker 2 00:01:08 Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of does this make me local old Haitian?
Speaker 0 00:01:14 Hey Sam, how are you?
Speaker 2 00:01:15 Oh, I'm good. Know I'm actually doing well. How are you?
Speaker 0 00:01:24 I'm okay. I'm okay. It's so funny that we were talking over each other because I've been doing that all day. Like people will like, you know, I'll be on the phone or something and somebody will be like, oh, hello. And then like, immediately I'll talk over there. How are you? And then, and then there's this weird awkwardness where we're both seeing we're good to each other. Like at the same time, it's just like, it's all ridiculous. So I'm glad to see that that just continued with you.
Speaker 2 00:01:49 Well, I'm glad, you're glad I wonder why that is though. Like, are you feeling like you're in a rush to speak today? Like you just want to get your thoughts out? Is that what it is?
Speaker 0 00:02:02 I don't know. I just feel, I don't know. I have no idea. I feel that maybe I'm just like, maybe I'm just, I'm just out of practice and they just don't know how to talk to me.
Speaker 2 00:02:16 Yeah, no, I feel like, I think for me, I I've had, uh, similar moments. Uh, so you're not the only one, but I think it's partly like, I'm just so tired. Like, I feel like I'm, in some ways, like just maybe going through the motions, you know, almost where you're talking and you're kind of like, okay, let me just get everything out there. And, and you're not really processing the whole conversation. So this should make this podcast. Today's this week's very interesting.
Speaker 0 00:02:44 Well, it just basically be talking at each other, but not really.
Speaker 2 00:02:49 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:02:53 Super happy
Speaker 2 00:02:54 About this. Hey, no, listen, this is like a PSA. Make sure get your rest people. Otherwise you will be having conversations with yourself.
Speaker 0 00:03:08 Oh my goodness. Too funny yet we are here to serve Through our like ridiculousness.
Speaker 2 00:03:19 So I have to say like, it's sometimes just fun to talk about ridiculous, like in a ridiculous manner like this, because I feel like we're always, everyone's always so on all the time, especially now in the pandemic era, like where, you know, we are mostly, um, working from home, um, in, in some cases or on a lot of zoom calls all day, you know? And so, uh, you know, and so it's always like, go, go, go serious mode. So sometimes, you know, it's nice. It's nice to have an outlet like this where you can be silly.
Speaker 0 00:03:57 Oh my goodness. I now, well, I was, yeah. Although to be honest, I don't think I'm ever really on. I feel like I'm like constantly awkward and weird having an awkward
Speaker 2 00:04:10 That
Speaker 0 00:04:12 Me, I, I dunno. I feel like I'm awkward and weird. Do you know what I mean? Maybe I'm not maybe, maybe other people don't think I'm awkward and weird. All of the other day was so funny because, um, I was talking to my colleague and uh, I was, I was talking to her like about somebody else and I was just like, oh, you know, I was hoping that they'd be more meticulous about this. And I was just like, but you know, like I can understand, like they're a little bit laid back, but like, sometimes you can't be. And I was like, you know, like me, I'm very laid back and that she looked at me and she was like, you're not laid back. And I was like, I'm really? He was like, yeah, you're the furthest thing from laid back. Like, I will not use the back to describe you. And I was just saying, that sounds like
Speaker 2 00:04:57 Serious way of saying, like, you're not laid back.
Speaker 0 00:05:02 I was like, oh, okay. I know, because clearly I have this like super diluted version of myself. I like, I'm all chill. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm so laid back and chill and like the cool, cool doctor, you know? No, apparently I'm not. I'm like, I guess I'm super high, strong and answers.
Speaker 2 00:05:26 This reminds me of, um, what was it like a few weeks ago when remember I was like telling you or, oh, it was on this podcast. I think like, we actually talked about this right. Where I was like, I feel like I still have that hippie element side to me. Like, you know, and you're like, I'm glad to see that you had a similar moment.
Speaker 0 00:05:51 It's true. I know. It's funny how, like your vision of yourself is like different from the vision that you project.
Speaker 2 00:06:02 I had a similar conversation, um, at work where my team and I were like, you know, just, you know, catching up. It was a team meeting. And, um, one of my teammates, you know, she was like, oh, I have to present something. And you know, SIM was checking it over. And, and I was like, well, you know, it's not too bad. Like, I didn't make a lot of changes. And like the other members of my team, they literally just said, oh, really? Is that a joke? Like, you always change, change everything. Like from a deck, like, I mean, you know, I just review and, and make suggestions. And they're like, it it's always like completely different from when what we submitted. And I was like, okay, like, whoops, I thought I was being helpful, but it was all red pen.
Speaker 0 00:07:08 They were like, you basically overhauled the presentation,
Speaker 2 00:07:15 Easy going about these things as long as the formatting is right. And they're like, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:07:22 Oh my God. Okay. So it sounds like we both pretty much have the same diluted,
Speaker 2 00:07:28 Whatever man, a we're hilarious B I think we're chill. It's not my problem that the rest of the world just doesn't get it.
Speaker 0 00:07:43 Oh, okay. I'll go with that. But
Speaker 2 00:07:45 Chill, as long as like, you know, you're not being, you know, contradictory to what I was.
Speaker 0 00:07:53 Yeah. Pretty much. I'm like, basically if you go against my wishes, then I'm not sure
Speaker 2 00:08:02 What it is. I think what it is is that at work. Um, and maybe you're similar. I feel like you would be, um, I think we bring so much of like making decisions and like, you know, being, I don't know, like in, you know, like, no, I should've started the story differently. Sorry. I think in our personal lives, like, you know, in our friend circle and stuff like that, you and I tend to be the easygoing ones. Right. It's like, when people are deciding where to go, what to do, what to eat, we're always like, yeah, go with the flow, whatever works for everyone. So I think that that's the vision or image of ourselves that we carry at work. Literally the opposite.
Speaker 0 00:08:53 Yeah. I think that's what's happening
Speaker 2 00:08:56 At work. I feel like I, I sort of take so many decisions and so many, you know, like I'm constantly trying to get stuff done that once I'm home, I'm like, yeah, whatever, man, like just, just, just tell me where to go, what to, what to wear when to show up and
Speaker 0 00:09:14 Yeah. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. I know. Yeah. I know what you mean. It's just kind of like, whatever I know, and I know it's true because sometimes it gets snippy when somebody asks, like, if I've come home from work and somebody asks me to make a decision. Yeah, Exactly. Just choose something.
Speaker 2 00:09:36 This was the longest intro ever. It wasn't even an intro. Cause I was like, yo, let's just randomly chat about everything and anything. Um, but, um, but what are we talking about today?
Speaker 0 00:09:52 Oh yeah. Okay. So, so I think a cup, I think it was a couple of podcasts ago. I'm not totally sure, but we were, um, we had put something like we put a pin in something, cause I was just like, Ooh, we should talk about this topic. And then, um, and then something happened recently where I was just like, oh, I think we should definitely talk about this topic. So the topic that we had put a pin in was like basically how S okay, so basically about body, body positivity and how everybody's kind of like on the bandwagon that, you know, we should exp you know, we should make appreciate all body types. And I guess in our case, like given what the podcast is, like all ages, that type of thing. Um, but at the same time, we kind of laud women who are of a certain age for like not looking their age. And so like, you know, so for example, like when J-Lo comes out and she's all like sexy and like, you know, hot, and then we're all like, Ooh, look at J-Lo, she's like redefining what it means to be a woman who's 50. And like, but the thing is, is that the message around that is kind of
Speaker 2 00:11:02 It's up to try and
Speaker 0 00:11:05 Yeah. Cause like the thing is, is like it's kind of double edged, right? Because on the one hand, you know, she's kind of like on the one hand, we're like lauding her for breaking stereotypes of what an older woman should look like. And on the other hand, or saying that, that kind of like that kind of elusive search for like youth should just like continue into your fifties, sixties and onwards. So like, so really what are we saying? And then what happened recently was that, um, I think Linda Evangelista went onto social media to describe what happened, like basically to described a botched procedure, um, using a, um, like fat removal technique. And so she's basically suing the company for like permanently disfiguring her, because what happened is I think they, yeah, like I think she used this technique in order to remove fat. I don't know where from like, she, she doesn't elaborate. Like I have no idea what part of her body was, was being, um,
Speaker 2 00:12:13 Where the treatment was,
Speaker 0 00:12:14 Where the treatment was basically. Yeah. And so, um, but I don't think it really matters, but the thing is, is that like, she's apparently, like, I guess she's been very reclusive because she claims that the procedure has permanently disfigured her and she's needed two corrective surgeries in order to yeah. In order to get back to like her baseline, but apparently the surgery, the surgeries didn't work. And so now it's affecting her livelihood. So if anyone doesn't know, like Linda evangelists does this Canadian supermodel who basically, I think she was one of the original nineties supermodels. So it was like Naomi Campbell, Cindy Crawford, Linda bench, Lisa, like there's a, there's a group of them. And um, so, so yeah, so basically like there's kind of been this like resurgence of nineties models, if you haven't, if you, I don't know if you've been following, but like Naomi Campbell is like doing runway shows.
Speaker 0 00:13:05 So as Kate Moss, like Cindy Crawford even. And so like, um, so, you know, so a lot of people have been wondering like where's Linda and all of this. Right. And so, but the thing is, is that she can't actually like, because of this botched procedure, she hasn't been able to, um, like book work like that. And so, yeah, but then, but then it kind of like goes to, like, it kind of goes to this whole discussion about whether or not we should be holding women to these beauty standards even into older ages, you know? So that's what I wanted to discuss. So we can, like, I don't know, we can talk about that and, uh, yeah. Discuss our thoughts.
Speaker 2 00:13:51 So, so you actually write, like I was, as you were saying this, I was just thinking that my gosh, like what, like J-Lo being the prime example where, you know, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, you know, we've recently even talked about like, holy crap. Like she looks amazing, but now I'm kind of like, darn it. Should I have thought that I'm still processing that piece where I'm like, oh wait, but also, um, so, so w Linda evangelist is, you know, botch surgery aside, um, not aside, but like, I'm just wondering that, you know, however, I know, I don't know what she looks like today, but, um, would it actually have prevented her from getting a job? Had she not undergone surgery? Do you know what I mean? Like, as in, would it have impacted her ability to get a job? Like, I don't know what she looked like. Did she even need the procedure in the first place?
Speaker 0 00:15:00 Yeah, I have no idea. Like, I mean, um, yeah, I mean, I, I don't know, like I haven't really been following her, so I have no idea what she's what's happened and whether or not like she wouldn't have been able to book proceeded book shows or not. Um, I think like the whole thing, but I guess like the whole thing, I think it's like moot because really the, like really what we should be discussing is whether or not we're holding women to like this impossible beauty standard, because she felt, I know she needed this procedure. Right,
Speaker 2 00:15:34 Right. I mean, that's, that's very fair. That's a very fair comment. Uh, I actually don't know much about her, but I was just thinking that I've only seen recent pictures out of the, all the supermodels. You've mentioned Kate mosque, Naomi Campbell, um, uh, Cindy Crawford. I feel like I've only seen Cindy Crawford recently in, in some social media, pictures and stuff. And, um, she's another one of those beauties, you know, who remains gorgeous or in Brooke shields, but they do still look like, I wouldn't be like, like, you know, like, oh my gosh, they look so young, but it's more like, oh, wow. They're so beautiful. Do you know what I mean? But I didn't necessarily have that qualifier that, oh my gosh, they look so young. Like, I can't believe they're 52. Like, they, they look just beautiful, you know, no matter what, whereas I get J lo sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, is she really 52? Because she could be 25 and I would believe it.
Speaker 0 00:16:44 Yeah. I mean, it's super, it's like, and this is why it's double edged. Right. Because on the one hand, we really shouldn't be, uh, holding any woman to any sort of standard of how to look. Because I think that for the longest time, you know, once a woman hit 50 or even 40, you know, they were kind of like dead to the world. And like, you know, you just assume that they were kind of grand mall looking and it was just kind of like over,
Speaker 2 00:17:14 You know,
Speaker 0 00:17:15 They basically like whatever life they had was kind of immaterial because they didn't, I don't know, because like, because so much of things were just wrapped up in a woman's appearance that like, just because they now look older, they're like, you know, like they're invisible now, you know? And so on one level, it's like nice to see women who are in their fifties just being like, continuing to be themselves. Right. But then on the other hand, like, what are we saying? Because like, because yes, like we can say, J-Lo looks amazing, but she's done a lot in order to look amazing. Do you know what I mean? And so if she wasn't doing that, like what would we be saying then? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 00:18:08 No, no. I, I think I, yeah, it's, it's difficult to articulate, like what you're saying, like, but I know exactly what you mean in a weird kind of a way, but I think in a way though, like, I feel that the style of people have changed and evolved through time. So even without going, um, the J low level of work right. To put in that, I feel like when I see, and I don't know if it's because I'm older now, but if I see, you know, someone in their fifties and sixties, I'm often like, like the way they dress, the way they, everyone, like, regardless of the body shape and type, um, it just feels different than, for example, if I was to, like, if I see an episode of the golden girls where I think they were in their fifties, in that show,
Speaker 0 00:19:03 I think they were in their early fifties. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:19:04 Yeah. And, and my image of the golden girls, it's still like, to me, those, they are still older somehow than if I see their same age counterpart today. Does that make sense?
Speaker 0 00:19:19 But that's what I'm saying. Right. Like I'm saying that like back in the day, that's our vision of a 50 year old. Right. So like, so now when we see somebody who's 50 and looking, you know, like just as, you know, fit and like pretty as somebody who's in their like thirties, we're like, Ooh, that's so amazing for you. Right. And so, because we're still stuck in this mentality where if you're 50, you should look like the grandmother or you should look like a grandmother. Do you know what I mean? So like, so like on the one hand, I like the people are breaking barriers about what older people should look like. But then on the other hand, it's problematic because then you're seeing like,
Speaker 2 00:20:00 That whole youth is better for you.
Speaker 0 00:20:03 Yes. Yeah. Whereas like, if you just, like, if these people just like, kind of gracefully aged, like, you know, and let themselves have wrinkles and let themselves, you know, like get a little bit of like, you know, like weight gain, but still looked fine then like maybe we would all be a little bit more comfortable with just like aging naturally, as opposed to having to, and this is where, this is where the whole didn't July Linda Evangelista thing comes in where it's like, I don't know what she looks like now, but like, maybe she was, I don't know, you know, maybe she had a few wrinkles. Maybe she had like, you know, weight gain in her face where like, normally she didn't have any in her twenties. You know what I mean? Like, because we're holding people up to this like crazy standard of beauty, she felt that she needed to get this procedure done and then like with horrible results.
Speaker 0 00:20:56 Right. So, I mean, I think that's, I think that's the problem that I'm kind of like coming to grips with, because on the one hand sure. Break some boundaries, you can be sexy at 50, you can be sexy at 60, but at what cost. Right. And then like, should we body shame women? Or like, or even men for that matter, like we should be body shame people for like getting botched plastic surgery, because they're trying to keep up with this crazy, like ideal of beauty, because now we've pushed it even further. Right. That you can't just like, look beautiful in your twenties and thirties, but now when you have to look like beautiful into your fifties, sixties and seventies, right.
Speaker 2 00:21:30 And this is a tough way, I'm actually at a loss as what to say, like, you know, cause you're right. Like it's, uh, cause on one hand, if that's what makes them happy and that's how they want to live their lives. Uh, I'm a big advocate for that, you know? And you know, it's like you do you, whatever makes you happy, whether it's plastic surgery, whether it's wearing, you know, pink, hot, pink shade, when you're, you know, I don't know, whatever age that people say, you should stop wearing it. Um, although I hope there's not an age, but then at the same time you're right. Like, people shouldn't feel pressured to do it either. So I don't know. I don't know where I land on this topic. Um, like you've actually thrown me for a loop here. So I'm trying to think it through, this is why I need to have, well, I mean, okay, where do you land on this while you, you know? And I'm like, we'll see if I agree or to secretly,
Speaker 0 00:22:41 I don't know. Like I feel like, yeah. So since we look to celebrities, basically for a lot of the direction as to how we should look or dress or whatever, I think that it would be nice if more celebrities were just open about like all the work that they do in order to look the way they do and, or just like, let themselves go a little, you know, like if you're, you know, like maybe don't get Botox all the time or, you know what I mean? Like, just because like, it just sets up this weird standard and then it also like sets other people up for failure because, and I've, and I've ranted about this on other podcasts too, but it just annoys me when, like you see, not that I've read these magazine articles or anything, but like sometimes you just see the headlines where it's just, so-and-so says that to keep their like perfect trim body.
Speaker 0 00:23:37 They, you know, they eat, they only eat X and they, you know, do a 30 minute workout every day or like whatever, or like, or it's like, oh, for their like tight skin, they, I dunno, kale juice or something like that. You know what I mean? Like they make it sound like it's super easy. And they're like, oh, only if you had the discipline to do this. Or only if you like spent all of this money on supplements or like, whatever it is, right. Or, yeah. You hate drinking wheat grass while this is what I do during the week.
Speaker 2 00:24:11 And it's just like, when you put it like that, I think I land on the side of let your body go a little. Cause that's grass does not tasted as good as you make it sound like it does.
Speaker 0 00:24:26 Exactly. Yeah. And then like, but like it's always a quick fix, right? Like they're always claim it's a quick fix. But then like when you actually look at them, like when you look at them and what they do, you're just like, it can't be as quick a fix as you're claiming. Like you're clearly doing more than that, but you're not letting us in on the secret, which is that, oh, I go to X, plastic surgeon and I get, you know, fillers put in and injectables and like whatever. And like, I am, you know, I left and I got a butt lift or I got like, you know, liposuction, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, just be honest, just tell me that's what you do because yeah. I'm not going to get that done. And like, that's fine. Right. Like if this is what you need to do to make yourself feel happy, then that's fine.
Speaker 0 00:25:07 But you know, like I'm not going to hold myself to that standard. And maybe you shouldn't hold yourself to that standard either. Yeah. I guess. I don't know. And then like, and then to keep going on the rant, it's just like, is it because we live in a patriarchal society and like, this is just what it is now where like, yeah. Before women were like written off at 40 and like, or even men, like, you know what I mean? Because now you can see like men doing all of this plastic surgery as well. Right. And so like after certain age, people are kind of written off like for the next newest, hottest youngest thing. Yeah. Like is that is not what what's happening basically. Do we need to topple the patriarchy and say, this is bullshit. People should just look the way they look, you know?
Speaker 2 00:25:49 Yeah. The first, I mean, wasn't there an article recently? Um, uh, what's the actress from Frankie and grace, grace and Frankie
Speaker 0 00:25:57 Lily Tomlin, or Jane Fonda, Jane Fonda.
Speaker 2 00:26:00 Didn't she say that like she speak openly about all the plastic surgery she's gotten. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:26:05 She did. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:26:06 She did. Right. Because she started having them what in her forties. And she's like in her eighties now.
Speaker 0 00:26:15 Oh, wow. Ooh, that's a lot of work.
Speaker 2 00:26:20 Um, you know, and, and I, I remember, um, reading something along the lines, like, you know, she's, she's had, uh, quite a bit of work done, but I think she also kind of wishes she hadn't. Yeah. So anyway, it just reminded me of, of that. Um, that she's one of those people who's actually talked openly. I don't know when she started to talk openly about her plastic surgeries if she always had
Speaker 0 00:26:48 No, I think it's recently, I think I did read, like, I didn't, I haven't read the articles completely, but I do remember that. I think she only recently started talking openly about her plastic surgery, because it was kind of one of those things where it's just like, yeah, like Jane Fonda regrets this, or like, you know, like regrets. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:03 It was like some kind of hobbling around that. Yeah. Um, so yeah, no. So maybe, maybe, so maybe this is going to sound funny that maybe it's one of those things that it's that vanity that pushes you to do these things. Right. And I'm assuming that there is that, you know, you, you are vain about looks in some shape or form right. Where you want to look a certain way, but the confidence to say, I don't need it. Maybe that's something that, you know, really does come with age and yeah. It sounds like Jane Fonda got it around in her seventies or eighties, or whenever this article, you know, her topic had come up and I don't know if J-Lo, you know, I don't know if she's had it, but, um, if they will actually it'll come out in the future.
Speaker 0 00:27:56 J J LO's had it. Yeah. Yeah. She's definitely had it. There's no way, like we had this discussion in our plastic surgery pod, like she's had
Speaker 2 00:28:05 Oh yes. Okay. We know that I have a horrible memory. It's only going to get worse over time. I would just put it out there. I've always been this way. I just don't retain information. I, you know, Dory is probably my spirit animal from finding email. So just putting it out there because I know we always have these conversations and then you're like, dude, I told you, and I'm like you did, when
Speaker 0 00:28:35 Did you tell them? Yeah. But yeah, it's true. Like, so I think there is a component of vanity, but I have a, I feel I have a feeling, a component is just like keeping up with the Joneses type thing. Right. Like at least in the celebrity world where it's just like, oh, if I want to get this gig, I'm going to have to step it up. You know? And like, and I think that that's like
Speaker 2 00:28:58 Shame. Right. You see, in that case, I feel like you're right. Like we should definitely be focused on smashing the patriarchy, which actually brings me to some of the older actresses that I think are very beautiful. And I actually don't know. Um, and, and who I see they're still working. Right. And, and I don't know where they are. So, uh, Judi Dench, Dane do Judi Dench, Helen Mirren, Meryl Streep, like, um, are they like that? Like, I'm, I'm sure that, you know, um, obviously like, I, I just feel like, you know, maybe they're just so well-respected that maybe we wouldn't discount them and from, from getting work, you know, or giving them, giving
Speaker 0 00:29:50 Yeah. That they like that they've created such a career for themselves, that they have enough clout so that it doesn't matter. I mean, I don't know, like maybe,
Speaker 2 00:30:00 Yeah. Maybe they have been impacted, right.
Speaker 0 00:30:03 Yeah. I know. Well, because nobody's honest about it, right? Like that's the thing, it's just like, nobody tells you. And then like, and then as a lay person, you're just kind of like, oh, I wish I had heard jeans or like, you know, like, I don't know what she does to look like that. But like, I guess, you know, me being the plea, being that I am like, I'll never, I can never get to that, you know,
Speaker 2 00:30:29 But the plebeian in me, I was a live, the plebeian, me not in me is also to be honest, Schiff, lazy AAF. I really dream about like, you know, oh my gosh, one day I'm just going to wake up and like, you know, be super fit and, and, and, you know, a size two and all of that good stuff. But that work that you were talking about, like putting in that work. I don't have it in me right now. So,
Speaker 0 00:31:03 Uh, I know, I know it's tough. Life is, life is tough life, new life.
Speaker 2 00:31:08 So, so maybe, maybe just even having that motivation to, to put in that work, um, at their age, maybe that's, that's the cool part, you know?
Speaker 0 00:31:19 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:31:21 I mean, if they can bring themselves to like consistently drink wheat, grass juice or whatever it is that they do,
Speaker 0 00:31:29 The thing is is that I don't think they do.
Speaker 2 00:31:33 I know you don't want them to also eat healthy.
Speaker 0 00:31:37 Well, no, I'm sure they do. I'm sure they do, but I'm like, I don't think that's, what's keeping them looking like, like that. I'm pretty sure other people are constantly drinking their wheat grass juice and probably not looking like, you know,
Speaker 2 00:31:52 I feel like, okay, now you're, you're kind of like forcing me to think, like, maybe I should try one of the two, either try the plastic surgery route or the wheat grass juice route and see which one works.
Speaker 0 00:32:09 That's my problem though. Like, I think that's my, that's my issue is that like, they're making you, like on some level they are making you feel like this is what you need to do. Right. And I'm saying a hundred percent and I'm saying, I don't think we should do that. Like, I don't think that we need to do anything. I think we should just, I think we need to just like truly accept an aging face. Like truly,
Speaker 2 00:32:34 Okay. Yoda. That is not happening right now because I'm not there yet. I'm glad you are.
Speaker 0 00:32:45 No, not seeing you personally. I mean,
Speaker 2 00:32:48 Know, I know. Yeah. It's like, I hear you and it makes sense and I feel you are correct. And yet my brain and heart is violently rejecting thoughts. How cool would it be to be a size two again with no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm
Speaker 0 00:33:21 That's too funny. Yeah, I know. I know. I just feel, yeah. I just feel bad. I don't like, I mean, if you think like it affects people like Linda, Linda Evangelista, who is like fucking goddess, like it affects all of us then, you know,
Speaker 2 00:33:36 Definitely she's. Yeah. If a supermodel can feel insecure, like imagine, like you said, the plebeians. Exactly.
Speaker 0 00:33:48 I know exactly. I know. So yeah. I mean, like to that point where she ended up getting disfigured by like, that's awful by treatments, you know what I mean? It's just, yeah. I dunno. It's just, it's just upsetting. Yeah. But yeah. I mean, it's nice to see, like, it is like, it is nice to see people who are older, like still like still working in their professions. Like I think, um, like I think Naomi Campbell and Kate Moss were just recently in like the combined, like Fendi, Versace, like, like fashion show. And so, yeah. So like, yeah. So like on the one hand, like, yay, good for them. But like, on the other hand, like what are we saying that these people aren't like, although to be honest, like, I feel like with Naomi and Kate, like even if they had done have done procedures, it's not super obvious. You can tell that they do look older, but you can't tell per se that they have had work done. So,
Speaker 2 00:35:01 Um, what, like, has she changed? I haven't seen any pictures of her recently, so I haven't, did you see the pictures from the event? What does she look like now?
Speaker 0 00:35:14 I mean, she looks very similar, but you can tell like, her face is a bit fuller than it used to be. Like, she doesn't look, she doesn't look like she's 20 anymore, you know?
Speaker 2 00:35:22 So that's good. Right?
Speaker 0 00:35:23 Yeah. I mean, but I would like to know whether or not
Speaker 2 00:35:32 They should be like some kind of like a little, you know, like those disclaimers words or like a thought bubble, you know, like those black captioning things that pop up over a character as they're walking through a TV show or, you know, the screen where it's like, you know, you know, Kate Moss, you know, whatever her age is, comma, you know, and gives a little snippet of her personality or something quick fact about
Speaker 0 00:35:59 Yeah. But then also like all her procedures she's had Botox and Juvederm and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2 00:36:05 Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:36:09 Yeah, yeah. That's, that's all I ask. Cause it's just like, yeah. Like I want to know whether or not this is like truly just your genetics or whether or not like you had stuff done because like, it just makes, yeah. It's just like, it's just more honest, you know?
Speaker 2 00:36:22 Yeah. I know. That's, that's a very fair ask and I think maybe someday, maybe we're going towards it. Like, you know, I think the more people normalize these things, like it becomes less of an issue. Cause I feel like nowadays more and more people do talk about getting procedures and stuff like that. Maybe not the extent of it or maybe not, you know, all of them, but do they have issues? Don't you think about it a little bit more? No,
Speaker 0 00:36:51 I don't think so. I mean, like, other than Jane Fonda saying that she's had procedures done, like, I don't think like, I can't think of anyone else who's been like, yeah, I've gotten them done.
Speaker 2 00:37:00 Did Nicole Kidman say anything? Because she's definitely
Speaker 0 00:37:04 Oh yeah, no, she like, I'm pretty sure she flatly done denies it like 100%. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:37:09 I really need to get back into celebrity gossip and losing touch. And, and as I'm saying this, I'm realizing that that is depressing because it's probably a function of my age now Happened. When did I stop keeping up with
Speaker 0 00:37:29 Sure. I think this should be another topic,
Speaker 2 00:37:35 Like, like shifts, like still on top of things. This pageant show happened. And that day I'm like, what, what are you talking about?
Speaker 0 00:37:46 Oh yeah. Well I know maybe, maybe I shouldn't be spending this much effort on these things, but, But see, I'm gonna say that this is all work-related because it's for the pods, I'm doing this for our listeners.
Speaker 2 00:38:10 Oh
Speaker 0 00:38:11 Yeah. But like, but to your point, like, I don't know. I don't know that people are actually talking about their procedures cause I'm pretty sure Demi Moore and Madonna have had lots of work done and they are not discussing it. You know? Like I think they're just trying to pass it off as like, you know, that this is just how they're aging. It's just like, no, this isn't possible. Nobody gains cheekbones like that on the age. Or like suddenly grows an ass. Like, you know, it's just like law. I mean, you can grow an ass, but it just won't be that tight. So yeah. Like, I don't know. It's just, uh, yeah. I just, I don't think there is that transparency around it. I think there's, I think that there's still this, I don't know if it's a stigma, but I think like people just want to pretend like they're aging gracefully when they're not
Speaker 2 00:39:12 Vanessa Williams is actually one of the people who admit to vote up Botox and stuff. I think she was one of those celebrities. I'm trying to think. You're right. I can't think of examples. At least not easily. I'm sure. I'll think of other people, but
Speaker 0 00:39:30 Yeah. I can't think of anybody who has really disgusted unless they like discuss botched procedures, but like, you know, like I don't think anybody has and yeah. And I mean, I think that's, that's the problem and yeah. And I mean, lots of them flatly deny it. Right. And it's just like, wow, your forehead is suddenly weirdly smooth. How's that possible? Uh, so all know, you know, who has discussed it? I think Ryan, I think Ryan Gosling has, but I think we discussed this in our pod
Speaker 2 00:40:16 Ever bad saying that we've had this discussion. So when I say
Speaker 0 00:40:25 I'm doing it for our listeners benefit because you guys talked about this already,
Speaker 2 00:40:35 What?
Speaker 0 00:40:37 Yeah, yeah. Apparently, apparently he's had he's he's had plastic surgery. Cause I think he's had his nose done and I think he has disgusted. Like I think he has,
Speaker 2 00:40:46 Oh my goodness. Wow. I can't remember. I need to listen to that episode. It's terrible.
Speaker 0 00:41:03 But yeah. I mean, well, yeah, like that's, that's basically how I stand on this issue. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like I, yeah. I guess like the whole thing is, is that like where I don't know where I stand is the appearance of older women, because I don't know, like I don't know how to feel about J-Lo looking the way she does. Do you know what I mean? Like it's just, it's so mixed. It's such a mixed bag.
Speaker 2 00:41:31 It is a mixed bag of emotions because there's part of me. That's like, wow, how do you do?
Speaker 0 00:41:39 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like there's a part of me. That's just like, wow, how you do, how do you do it? I wish I could emulate that like too, but then too with just like, I know partly how you're doing it. And uh, like I, I don't flee. I'm not totally fully on board with that for myself. And then like three, should we really be like applauding you for this? Because now you're setting up like these incredibly difficult beauty standards for like the rest of us, like almost 50 year olds to like, you know, aspire to. So, you know,
Speaker 0 00:42:12 Like I don't think it's healthy. Like I think that's the thing. Like, and it's really funny because like a friend of ours did talk about that was just like how she felt that, um, it was so difficult to go into your older age without feeling this need to like, be like, be seen as sexy. Right. And it's just like, and at the time I didn't understand what she was saying, but I think I do now, which is that like, you know, when you're in your twenties and thirties, you feel like, you know, you were bombarded with all sorts of media about like what to look like and how to be pretty. And then like by the, but then you had this feeling that like, by the time you were like 50 or 60, it didn't matter as much. Like you would like, it's almost like you would have this sense of relief where you could just kind of like, be like, okay, now I'm in my fifties and sixties and it doesn't matter. And I can just let myself go. But now it was like these, like all of these people on social and like the media and whatever who are all like continuing to perpetuate this, like you Lucent idea of like youthful beauty. Like now you're like, you still continue to feel this need to like, be like that.
Speaker 2 00:43:23 So, so I think, uh, I don't know, I'm kind of flip flip-flopping again on this because clearly I haven't made up my mind. So I reserve the right to change my mind again, and I might forget the cold conversation and then come up with a completely different conclusion. So with that caveat out of the way, I mean, yeah, I think you're right overall, but I guess my stance on, on that is that isn't it. But we still do see more of a representation of older women on social media now. Um, whether or not for whatever reason, like, because they look young or we think, you know, whatever we're applauding them for rather than the opposite, which is they would just disappear, you know, 50 years ago or whatever, like you hit 40 and you're really not there anymore as part of,
Speaker 0 00:44:27 You know. Yeah. But the thing is is that if social existed, I guess my question is, is like if social existed back then would they have really disappeared? Like it's, it's a really difficult thing to really, um, assess. Yes. Because social didn't exist back then. And so like, so the style of people who are in their fifties and sixties, like I see. And then that's the other thing like is social making these older people look the way they do? Do you know what I mean? I guess my thing is, is that like it's self-selecting right. Because the older people who end up on social are the ones who look a certain way or who are, you know, showing everybody that.
Speaker 2 00:45:11 Yeah. Yeah. And, and they're perpetuating that. Yes, I guess. Yeah. You make a really good point there. So that one I can't counter. It's not that I want to be, but I guess where I'm trying to land on for my own peace of mind and sanity is whatever makes you happy. And if that's what makes you happy go for it. I think for me, the important part is what you were saying earlier is where we can sort of normalize not doing it also. You know what I mean? Yeah. I feel that people who want to look that way and are willing to either put in the work through exercise or plastic surgery or whatever it is, right. That, that gets you there, you do a UBU look good, feel good, you know, me happy, whatever. And if you don't want to do it, but still look your best look good in, you know, you'll still look good. You'll still feel good. And as long as that's the case, then I think that I'm okay with either, either option. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:46:23 Yeah. I mean, no. So I get the sentiment of that. Like I agree. Like I, I appreciate the sentiment and I agree with it in the sense that like, yeah, do what makes you happy? I guess the question is, is that are we perpetuating unhappiness and like, and unattainable beauty standards by telling women and men that like, at this age, you should still look like this.
Speaker 2 00:46:52 So at what point does the wisdom that we supposedly gain with age kick in? Cause like I can see like in your twenties or as a teenager being negatively impacted by the socially curated images. Right? Yeah. But I'm hoping that we can, like, as we get older, we, we learn a little bit more, you know, how to apply that a little bit more. I don't know. Um, critical thinking, critical thinking. Yes. Thank you. Critical thinking to that and sort of not be as persuaded. I'm not saying that it won't happen to a degree, but I'm just hoping that that kind of factors in somehow
Speaker 0 00:47:38 You're, uh, you're really optimistic because let me tell you, yeah, that's a very optimistic way of thinking because, uh, I don't know that there is that much critical thinking out there. I mean, I think looking at the whole COVID situation right now and the vaccines situation right now, like you can tell critical thinking is not out there. So
Speaker 2 00:47:59 I appreciate that
Speaker 0 00:48:02 Age brings wisdom, but I don't know that that's true.
Speaker 2 00:48:06 I'm just saying, I'm hoping it is. I'm Pollyanna. Meat's very pop is like, we know this,
Speaker 0 00:48:17 We go yesterday to burst that bubble.
Speaker 2 00:48:23 Why do we even try to miss two keeps trying,
Speaker 0 00:48:34 Oh my God. Anyway. Yeah. Anyway, I, anyway, like I don't think we're going to resolve this. I don't think this pod
Speaker 2 00:48:41 And they're resolved. It's fun. You know what I think will help us get at least some, a jumpstart on that feeling. Good. Looking good. Peace. I'm getting a full night's sleep girl.
Speaker 0 00:48:55 Yeah. Sounds good. We're like we're recording super late at night today. Today's
Speaker 2 00:49:02 And check. He's laughing because to her it's just early evening. This, you mean I'm hearing John.
Speaker 0 00:49:13 Oh my God. I know. I'll probably be up for another few hours.
Speaker 2 00:49:20 I think when you're going to get ready for bed. Is that when I'm, I'll be waking up again.
Speaker 0 00:49:27 Oh my God. Too funny. Anyway, I think we should call this an episode. Uh, I won't subject our listeners to my, uh, ongoing rant, but uh, yeah. Anyway, I just thought it was really, um, I thought it was just really topical just because, uh, this, yeah, just because of this recent story about Linda Evangelista. So yeah.
Speaker 2 00:49:49 We need to revisit this though, because I feel like I need to bring a point of view to this. Like, I mean like a deciding point of view, do you know what I mean? Like where I sort of buckle down and say, this is how it should be, but I don't have that. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:50:12 That's all right. I'm pretty sure our listeners have their own point of view. So that's fine too.
Speaker 2 00:50:20 Let us know, you know, tweet at us. Uh, put it on Instagram, share it on Facebook. Um, it's does this make me look old.com or email us at desk? This make me look old, uh, at gmail.com and uh, we'll see you or, you know, we'll we'll see. Yeah. See, well, I'll just say it. We'll see you next week. Sounds good. Bye. Bye.
