Speaker 0 00:00:03 Hi, and welcome to does this make me local, a podcast about aging as gracefully as possible when you're just not ready for two 40 something year old friends will find themselves kind of straddling that really odd period of time when aging and everything that it's associated with is starting to become a much bigger part of our lives. We're definitely curious, but at the same time, rather terrified about aging. I'm Schiff. I'm a health science nerd and pop culture themes, and I'm SIM and adult and waiting obsessed with finance and self-help books. We're going to be talking about the stereotypes of aging and how they affect us. And we'll also be doing some deeper dives into some interesting topics, such as what it's like to get old in the society dating when you're older and scientific advancements in anti-aging products and even evolution and scientific thinking around aging and throughout it all we chat rant laugh about or adulting mishaps of which there are so, so, so many. So join us as we navigate our second quarter life crisis.
Speaker 1 00:01:08 Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of does this make me look old? I'm SIM and I have shipped with me. I think she's just getting settled in, I think. Um, but yeah, no. Um, so welcome to this week's episode. So, um, it's actually a continuation from last week's episode when we started talking about mental health, especially in the pandemic and, you know, realizing that there was just so many topics to talk about.
Speaker 0 00:01:46 Yeah, well maybe, maybe we just wanted to rent.
Speaker 1 00:01:49 Maybe we, there was just too much for us to rent a boat. Yeah. I think like, we, we, we really covered a gamut of tough stuff last week, right? Like where, uh, we were talking about overall mental well of wealth. Oh my gosh, what is wrong with me? Clearly mental health issues. Um, I'm just tired again. Um, but like, um, and then speaking of self care, it's so much nicer when you actually get to quote unquote work from home. That was my rank, less talking overall. I think like we just ended up like more talking about burnout in S specifically, you know, given the pandemic and how it's affecting people, um, across the board. And so, you know, we thought like, it's a good idea to start talking about it. I mean, still continue the conversation because, um, Shiv, you were looking up a lot more interesting stuff around signs of burnout and symptoms and how to, you know, watch out for those kinds of things. And so I think there's a lot to cover today as well. So join
Speaker 2 00:02:59 Us. Okay. So I looked up some, uh, some solutions, cause I felt bad that we didn't actually have any solutions to her handling job burnout, but here we are. Okay. I don't know how okay. Let's, let's go through them and we can talk about,
Speaker 1 00:03:13 I've done them. Do I say, give myself five points or something? Like, how does this work? Do you
Speaker 2 00:03:17 Want to make it into quiz? Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:03:21 I want to make it into a quiz. Okay. Hold on. I'm looking. Oh, there's my lovely new stationary paper that I just bought indulgence. Is that on your list?
Speaker 2 00:03:36 Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, see, this is where I'm saying that material things, they actually may be a good thing. Okay. Um, okay. Okay. Um, oh yeah. So what's a passing grade
Speaker 1 00:03:48 Here. I don't know how many are there.
Speaker 2 00:03:50 There's six. So
Speaker 1 00:03:52 You give them five points each if you've done them. And then
Speaker 2 00:03:56 This is like, this is like a workplace Cosmo quiz.
Speaker 1 00:04:03 I'm actually going to make two columns. One for you, one for me.
Speaker 2 00:04:06 Oh, Jesus. Well, I'm fully going to be on board and say I probably have zero
Speaker 1 00:04:11 Anyway. Okay. We don't know yet. You haven't read through the article.
Speaker 2 00:04:15 Okay. Let's make a pass like 20,
Speaker 1 00:04:18 20 out of 30. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:04:20 Let's be kind. Okay. So handling job burnout. This is from the Mayo clinic. Okay. So handling job burnout. So one evaluate your options, discuss specific concerns with your supervisor. Maybe you can work together to change expectations or reach compromises or solutions. Try to set goals for what must get done and what can wait.
Speaker 1 00:04:43 I'm making the timeout.
Speaker 2 00:04:45 I'm sorry. I shouldn't have, I'm like, oh, what's going on?
Speaker 1 00:04:49 Because already this is a failure. Oh no. Okay. Here's the thing. Okay. Your options make a list of pros and cons and all of that. And talk to your boss. Who's probably also burning out. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:05:05 True.
Speaker 1 00:05:06 We have no time. And now you're telling me I need to take time out of mind. No time, day. Yeah. And think some more and evaluate my options apparently. And then book someone else's time and try and convince them yeah. To brainstorm with me. Yeah. So, okay.
Speaker 2 00:05:30 That's apparently one of the goals I have to say, I have done this. I have done this. I know. It's not totally. Yeah. It's just that we've come to solutions and the solutions are sort of like stop gap measures and not perfect, but you know,
Speaker 1 00:05:49 Yeah. No, that's okay. So you've done this, so should I give you a five, two and a half? Let's go with,
Speaker 2 00:05:55 Yeah. It's going to do two and a half. Cause
Speaker 1 00:05:57 I've also sort of brought it up, you know, and talked it through. But I just feel like, you know, supportive and wonderful as my, my team is, but none of us know what the,
Speaker 2 00:06:12 Yeah, exactly. I know. As I said, like, yeah. And like my supervisor has been super supportive as well, but the problem is, is that the stop gap measures involve time, money and increased labor. Which of course, like we partially solved it, but like it's kind of temporary and I don't know whether or not we're going to be able to find a permanent solution. Yeah. Okay. Seek support. Whether you reach out to coworkers, friends, or loved ones, support and collaboration might help you cope. If you have access to an employee assistance program, take advantage of relevant services. I was a five this podcast. I'm like, I feel like this podcast alone
Speaker 1 00:06:59 Support. So support. Yeah, no, definitely a five. That's a nice solid five go Mayo clinic.
Speaker 2 00:07:14 Okay. So three try relaxing activity. Oh my God. Sorry. Sorry, listeners. You can tell already how I feel about this. Okay. Explore programs that can help with stress such as yoga, meditation, or Tai Chi
Speaker 1 00:07:32 Done and done. So I will give myself a five on that one. Yeah. Because I've booked massages. I have tried meditation. I am trying yoga. Um, you know, I don't last very long, but I am trying, I know. Should I give myself a five or four?
Speaker 2 00:07:56 Give yourself a five. It's fine. Um, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:08:00 Yeah. You a 3, 2, 1 0.
Speaker 2 00:08:04 Oh. Um, I don't know. Probably like a three. I feel like I do these things, but like I don't find they help. They just make me, I mean, it's fine at the time, but then I come back and it's just like, oh, look, I wasted an entire day and whatever. And hanging out in the hot tub and having a little sauna and it's like,
Speaker 1 00:08:26 You realize
Speaker 2 00:08:32 It's lovely. And yet when I come back, when I come back, the work is still booking there.
Speaker 1 00:08:40 Okay. So that's my problem too, is that I do enjoy it at the moment, but then I'm still worried about all the stuff that needs to happen. Yeah. And then that feeling comes rushing back, like frazzled feeling. So should I give myself a three-year-old five? I'll give myself a five because that's the suggestion. Um, and then I will evaluate on how effective it's been, so, okay. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:09:06 Yeah. You might as well, give me a five too. Don't find it useful. Um, well, okay. No, I find it partially useful. It's just that yeah. Anyway,
Speaker 1 00:09:17 Like I have like, you know, cause you and I laugh a lot when we're recording and um, that's I find that helpful. Really? It is, it
Speaker 2 00:09:27 Is true.
Speaker 1 00:09:28 So there is that. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:09:31 Okay. Get some exercise. Regular physical activity can help you better deal with stress. It can also take your mind off work.
Speaker 1 00:09:43 You're not the type of person who enjoys exercise.
Speaker 2 00:09:47 I don't think it matters. I think you have to get some in. I won't even, I won't even go into the, all the reasons one must exercise.
Speaker 1 00:09:59 No, I agree. I know it's benefits. It's just so much work to exercise.
Speaker 2 00:10:10 I know
Speaker 1 00:10:11 Now that I've gained so much weight over the pandemic and I don't, I have to go shopping to buy something to wear so I can exercise in, you know, um,
Speaker 2 00:10:23 I know I'm dealing, I'm dealing with that myself. I'm like, oh, you got to buy new workout gear.
Speaker 1 00:10:28 'cause I'm like nothing fits. Um, yeah. Okay. So I guess I'll give myself, I do go for walks though every now and then I'm trying. So I will give myself a two. Okay. Yeah. I, how much do you want me to give you?
Speaker 2 00:10:43 Uh, yeah. Two is fine.
Speaker 1 00:10:45 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:10:46 Five. Okay. Get some sleep, sleep restores wellbeing and helps protect your health.
Speaker 1 00:10:53 Zero
Speaker 2 00:10:55 I'm. Yeah, give me a four. I'm pretty good on the sleep.
Speaker 1 00:11:02 I would have given myself higher. The reason I'm not doing that is because I'm really struggling with sleep these days. Um, I'm my quality of sleep has gone down. Um, I'm literally averaging either two to two to three hours a night or 12 hours a night, which I guess technically you could say, oh, it balances out and you're getting a lot of sleep true. But it's just,
Speaker 2 00:11:26 That's out of your pattern though. It's
Speaker 1 00:11:29 Not, it's not at end. It makes me feel like shit either way. I'm feeling like a zombie, you know, throughout the day or I wake up and I'm so lethargic from all that sleep that, that screws me over to. Yeah. So it's not a good feeling.
Speaker 2 00:11:48 Yeah. I know. I'm sure it's anxiety related like yeah. Like anxiety not promote for good sleep hygiene. So yeah. And I find when I'm anxious, I, especially around work. I will literally wake up in the middle of the night, like, because I just have this overwhelming panic attack where you're and like, and the minute I wake up, I'm like, I know it's around work and I'm automatically thinking about work. As soon as I get up. It's the worst feeling? The worst it is.
Speaker 1 00:12:16 And the last one.
Speaker 2 00:12:17 Okay. Mindfulness, mindfulness is the act of focusing on your breath flow and being intensely aware of what you're sensing and feeling it every moment without interpretation or judgment in a job setting, this practice involves facing situations with openness and patience and without judgment.
Speaker 1 00:12:36 So I'm good about taking those deep breaths now because it does calm me, but not without judgment. I don't know how to do that Judgy person, you know? And I'm an equal like, you know, like I judge myself as harshly.
Speaker 2 00:12:55 I know, I know. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
Speaker 1 00:12:58 Like SIM you're an idiot. Like why can't you just handle it better? And I go through those thought patterns and I try to stem them and I'm like, no, no, no. Be kind to yourself. Self-love you will laugh my friend. But the truth is, it is incredibly hard to do. I actually master this one, myself. Probably a two breaths.
Speaker 2 00:13:25 Yeah. You can give myself a zero. Um, yeah. Cause I'm like, I don't practice mindfulness at all. Um, what was I going to say? Yeah. And I feel like it's hard to get rid of that internal monologue when that internal monologue is somehow like has led to your success to date because you're just like, you know what I mean? It's like this negative, like the motivator that has helped you kind of get to where you are and then suddenly you're supposed to be all like lovey W2 yourself and be like, everything's lovely. And you're such a great person. And you know, like you can change the world, you know? And it's just like, Hmm.
Speaker 1 00:14:01 Day three. I can't night king. Not today.
Speaker 2 00:14:07 I know. I know.
Speaker 1 00:14:09 So do you want to hear how you have done? All right. 18 and a half out of 30, I have scored 16 and a half out of 30. Was it like the
Speaker 2 00:14:21 Sleep for you? I think it was asleep. It
Speaker 1 00:14:23 Was asleep. Oh, that sucks. Look it down to zero. So overall not quite healthy, but you know, I think it would actually have been lower, but which was the one where we gave ourselves five. It was like the, the yoga and the self care stuff, um, that we both gave ourselves five, but technically it's actually at a three cause we do it, but we're not finding it consistently helpful. No, I do find it helpful in the moment. So let's be clear if this is something that helps you please deal with them. Because for even 30 seconds of my day, it does give me joy when I do those things. So please do them.
Speaker 2 00:15:05 And I think he was just like, yeah, like, I mean, I go for walks. I, you know, like I do all the relaxing things and like, they are lovely at the time. It's just because the underlying issue that is causing the stress and the burnout is still there. Like it doesn't leave. Right. So it's just like, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:15:23 You know, when you accidentally touch the flame of a candle and you're like, whoops hot and you move it away. And then you're like, okay, it's not hot anymore. But then you have to go put your finger back into the fire, you know? And then you're like, oops, hot again.
Speaker 2 00:15:40 Okay. I don't know if that's the best analogy,
Speaker 1 00:15:43 But that's the,
Speaker 2 00:15:52 Oh my goodness. Oh actually. Okay. So speaking of burnout, I found a Forbes article from 2013 about burnout and what you can do. So I'm kind of curious from 2013. Yeah. So yeah. So this is how long people have been speaking about burnout, but like, I'm very curious to hear what the business people think about burnout because we've already heard what, like Mayo thinks about burnout. So let's talk, let's listen to what forms.
Speaker 1 00:16:17 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:16:17 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh actually, so let's uh, let's take a step back. Oh, hang on. Did I lose the article? Sorry.
Speaker 1 00:16:26 And while you're looking this up, we, you talk about, do you think you would have handled this pandemic differently? Had you been younger? We'll come back to it. It's just something I've been thinking about, but go on. We'll take a step back to Forbes.
Speaker 2 00:16:40 Yes. Okay. So, uh, okay. So, well actually, no, I'm going back to Mayo and we're going to be talking about what? So the main article is actually kind of, it's pretty good. So like in terms of symptoms, it's like a questionnaire. And so then the questionnaire is one. Have you become cynical or critical at work?
Speaker 1 00:17:05 I am so sorry. My coworker friends, Mary Poppins has become very cynical.
Speaker 2 00:17:13 No, it's like a death. It's like a death in the family. Okay. So to do you drag yourself to work and have trouble getting started?
Speaker 1 00:17:22 No. Cause I'm in the living room.
Speaker 2 00:17:26 Oh my God. Too funny. Yeah. You basically are always at work. Um, three, have you become irritable or impatient with coworkers? Customers or clients?
Speaker 1 00:17:37 I believe the answer would be a solid. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:17:40 You kind of outed your cell phone. Oh, okay. Oh no. That's thing. Like, I feel like, I feel like burnout just causes you to become the worst version of yourself. Like, it's just like, this is not you. This is just like the burnout version of you. You know it, this is yeah. Um, where were we at? Four. Do you lack the energy to be consistently productive?
Speaker 1 00:18:12 Correct. I used to operate at 110% at every time and I believe I'm now paying the price.
Speaker 2 00:18:22 Yep. And then five, do you find it hard to concentrate? Yep. Six. Do you lack satisfaction from your achievements? Oh dude. That's me to a T
Speaker 1 00:18:36 It's so very much so.
Speaker 2 00:18:38 Yeah. It's like, even when I do something, I'm just like, okay. Onto the next thing.
Speaker 1 00:18:44 You don't get a chance to save right
Speaker 2 00:18:46 Now. Not at all. Yeah. Or it's just like a tick box and you don't even like, for me, it doesn't even register as an achievement. It's just like yep. Fine. Whatever. Yeah, exactly. Moving on. Sucks
Speaker 1 00:19:00 Though. I
Speaker 2 00:19:01 Know. Okay. Continue seven. Okay. Seven. Do you feel disillusioned about your job?
Speaker 1 00:19:08 No, I, I really like my job. I don't, I think it, it does a lot of, um, it's fun when I actually wasn't feeling like this. Like I, I, and I love my team. Like I, I think, you know, they're a fun bunch, so no, I wouldn't say disillusioned.
Speaker 2 00:19:29 Okay. Eight, are you using food, drugs or alcohol to feel better or to simply not feel
Speaker 1 00:19:35 Natasha is not a food though. Right now. It
Speaker 2 00:19:38 Doesn't count.
Speaker 1 00:19:40 I'm not. I'm totally.
Speaker 2 00:19:45 Um, oh no. Okay. Okay. What, what nine have your sleep habits changed?
Speaker 1 00:19:53 We have very loud. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:19:56 Yeah. Yeah. And then 10, are you troubled by unexplained headaches, stomach or bowel problems or other physical complaints? That would be me headaches.
Speaker 1 00:20:06 Yeah. All the time. Oh yeah. So definitely, definitely burn. Uh, you know, so what's the score. Is there a score? Because if there's no score, I really don't like this.
Speaker 2 00:20:18 You're not going to be happy. What? You're not going to be happy about this. Okay. If you answered yes to any of these questions,
Speaker 1 00:20:27 That's an unfair
Speaker 2 00:20:28 Test. I know. Right. You might be experiencing job burnout.
Speaker 1 00:20:33 Ah, why do I feel like a loss?
Speaker 2 00:20:38 I know I'm like the
Speaker 1 00:20:39 Competitive person in me is not really.
Speaker 2 00:20:44 Oh my goodness. Oh God.
Speaker 1 00:20:48 Okay. You know what it does. Bring me out. I want to ask you this. Do you think we would have, because all the things like, why did I have to answer yes. To any of them? I mean, I'm actually annoyed with myself. Do you think you would have handled life differently in a pandemic? Had you been 20 years younger?
Speaker 2 00:21:05 I don't think so. I think actually it would have been worse because I feel like, yeah, because I well know. Cause like, you know, I was talking to you about like how I've discussed things with the supervisor and like trying to for help and stuff like that. I probably wouldn't have done that when I was younger. Yeah. That's
Speaker 1 00:21:21 True. Yeah. I
Speaker 2 00:21:22 Wouldn't have, I wouldn't have known. You wouldn't
Speaker 1 00:21:24 Have known. Yeah, no,
Speaker 2 00:21:27 No, no. It's not even that it's more like, I think that I would have, I think that mentally, I would have thought that that was a weakness on my part or that I would have been thought of as like just incapable or, you know, like not able to carry out my job. Like it would be a weakness. Right. Like I would think that,
Speaker 1 00:21:47 Well, technically not true. And it shouldn't be true.
Speaker 2 00:21:51 Yeah. Yeah. But I'm pretty sure that that would have been my mentality when I was younger and it, and I would've, I would've been in a worse position when I was younger than now. Wow.
Speaker 1 00:22:00 That actually makes you think I should check in on the younger people on mine. It makes me worried. Um, um, because I, I, I was actually going to say that I hope, um, that I would have, but you know, you handled it differently, but I think you're right. I would have worked even harder. I wouldn't have tried to take those self care time that I don't think I would have because, uh, that was my Mo right. Like works. As long as it takes work over the weekends, work over. Do you do what you need to do to get stuff done even though until you keel over and just die?
Speaker 2 00:22:42 Exactly. No. And it's really funny that you mentioned that you should check in on like the younger people on your team. Cause, um, cause that's actually what I do cause like knowing myself and knowing how like driven I was when I was younger and knowing how like, just, just knowing the culture, like just knowing medical culture when, when I have people who are working for me, cause I've had, you know, like various students working on projects for me, I do check in with them because I just know with the culture being what it is and if, how driven the people are, who want to enter that culture, that they will never tell me if they are struggling. And so I, it is my responsibility to check in with them because if I, if I'm giving them too much, they will never tell me that I'm giving them too much until it's too late and nothing and you know, nothing gets done. So I'm, I always check in with them like, is this, is this okay? Can you handle this? Is this deadline that I've given you, like not possible, do you need to like extend it? Whatever, because, cause I just know, I just know that that's
Speaker 1 00:23:48 How it is and that's good. I'm glad you do that. I do check in on my team, especially the broader team as well, but I just never thought about checking in specifically on the younger folks, um, because of the career aspect of it, you know? And so that kind of is a good reminder. So I'm glad that you do because now I'm like, holy crap, I should be, you know, making sure that I ask questions slightly differently and, and, you know, give them that space to speak to how they're handling things.
Speaker 2 00:24:25 Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, is that like if, and actually it doesn't even have to do with youth. It doesn't cause like I have, I have somebody working with me right now who is probably my age and um, I still check in with her because like I know that just, you know, like working for me already puts us at a different, like it it's, uh, it creates a hierarchy. Right. So then like it's really, I think it just behooves me to check in on people, working for me because you know, like my deadline, like I have, like, I have deadlines that I need to meet and like, but the thing is, is like, I don't know what's going on in their lives, you know? Like, just because I've created some deadline, like I don't want to be so hard and fast about it that, you know, if something's gone on in their life and that they can't, you know, reach that deadline then like, I don't want to be the, I just don't want to be heavy. Right. Who's like, Nope, worry. Like I don't care if there was a death in your family, you still have to get this done, you know?
Speaker 1 00:25:27 No. And I'm glad you're not one of those people. Um, yes, definitely very.
Speaker 2 00:25:37 But like I know the thing is, is like, and like I'll just like say like, uh, like a workplace thing, but like I was working for someone and I remember like my partner, my partner at the time was sick and I did not feel comfortable asking for time off, but I did because I needed to. But then like, but then I was given so much pushback, like, oh, why do you need this time off? Like, yeah, it was bad. So like, so there's bad ways of dealing with it and yeah, in our culture, it's like, like in our work culture, sometimes people are not super friendly.
Speaker 1 00:26:12 Well I'm, um, you know, a, you're not continuing that cycle with your teams. You know, some classes you're not doing that, but I'm also, you know, in some ways glad that that it's a lot more acceptable. It's still not there yet. We have a lot of work to do, but people are opening up about mental health, um, topics, um, and, and talking about this. And I think that, you know, the more people lean into it, more people talk about it. The more people are willing to share their experiences and their obstacles. Right. Like their struggles. I think that that, um, will make it more acceptable to ask for help to seek help and, and speak up when you need it.
Speaker 2 00:27:03 Yeah, for sure. No, I agree. Um, okay. So, so, so I was looking through this Forbes article and, um, it's kind of interesting cause like it's, so, you know, we heard like what the Mayo, the Mayo clinic thinks about job burnout and what health people say about job burnout. But it's kind of interesting to see what people on the business side, because it's kind of similar but slightly different. So in terms of the symptoms of burnout, the, they have kind of like, it's just like a tweak, like it's just a tweak, but okay. So then signs that you might be experiencing burnout and the Forbes article include exhaustion.
Speaker 1 00:27:41 Um,
Speaker 2 00:27:43 Yeah. So when you feel tired all the time, it can be emotional, mental or physical, and it's the sense of not having energy, any energy or of being completely spent? I can relate. Yeah. I think a lot of us can relate. So then two is a lack of motivation. So when you don't feel enthusiastic about anything, so this is similar to what the males saying. So like, especially <inaudible> side. Yeah, exactly. So no enthusiasm about anything or you no longer have that internal motivation for your work. Um, and then, yeah, and then it might be harder to get going in the morning and, or more difficult to drag yourself into work every day. Um, frustration, cynicism and other negative emotions. So like, so the Mayo obviously talked about that, but, um, so yeah, you feel like what you're doing doesn't matter anymore. You may feel disillusioned with everything you're more generally pessimistic than you used to be. Um, yeah. And then basically they say that everybody experiences some negative emotions, but it's important to know when these are becoming unusual for you. I would think that when, when, when Mary Poppins suddenly decides not to be married Mary Poppins anymore, that would be, that would eSign.
Speaker 1 00:28:54 I know I, it was actually funny because someone actually told me this, like, you know, because I'm known as the person who's always smiling and laughing and making jokes. And so then when I think I was like, I'm tired and I can't do this. You people are like, oh my gosh. Like, you know?
Speaker 2 00:29:12 Yeah, exactly. So then the, uh, the fourth thing is cognitive problems. So it's interesting that Forbes refers to cognitive problems, but basically I think Mayo referred to it as the, basically the ability, the inability to pay attention or concentrate. Yeah. So Forbes basically says that, um, in the short term, um, our attention narrows to a focus on, you know, negative elements that we perceive as a threat and basically our bodies and brains are designed to handle these threats in short bursts and then returned to normal functioning. But when the stress becomes chronic, the narrow focus continues for a long time and we have difficulty paying attention to other things. And so it's basically tunnel vision involving like a fight or flight response that negatively affects your ability to solve problems or make decisions. You might find that you're more forgetful and have a harder time remembering things
Speaker 1 00:30:03 Which doesn't bode well for people like me, who always forgets things in the first place it's amplified, man.
Speaker 2 00:30:15 I know I'm so five is slipping job performance. So that's kind of
Speaker 1 00:30:20 Interesting. Okay. I will die if that happens.
Speaker 2 00:30:23 I know. I know,
Speaker 1 00:30:24 But no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 00:30:28 Yeah. So they say, so they say like, if you're, if you want to kind of assess this, they compare your job performance now to those in previous years, because burnout tends to happen over an extended period of time taking this long-term view might reveal whether you're in a temporary slump or experiencing more chronic burnout.
Speaker 1 00:30:49 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:30:50 Oh, this is interesting. So six is interesting interpersonal problems at home and at work. So this tends to play out in one of two ways, according to the Forbes article a you're having more conflicts with other people, such as getting into arguments or B you withdraw talking to your coworkers and family members less, you might find that even when you're physically there you're tuned out.
Speaker 1 00:31:19 I don't think I have yet. Maybe that one doesn't resonate as much. I mean, I am exhausted. So, um, maybe I need more recharge time, but I don't know. Have I withdrawn from you guys? I don't think so. So maybe not that one as much.
Speaker 2 00:31:37 Yeah. And then seven, I feel this one, man. I'm not taking care of yourself when suffering. Well, I mean, I've been in situations where it's been worse, but
Speaker 1 00:31:53 So not taking care of yourself. How so? I, um, when it comes to food, I've been bad. Cause I've, I've been stressed eating and, and that means chips and ice cream and chocolate and, and like a lot of junk food junk. And I've been ordering in a lot and, and not cooking as much, you know? So it's been a lot of processed crap is, and it shows, so that way I haven't been taking care of myself.
Speaker 2 00:32:22 Yeah. Well, it's funny that you say that because it's just like, I understand that like cooking for yourself as part of self-care, but then it comes down to the same thing. It takes fucking time. Right,
Speaker 1 00:32:35 Right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:32:37 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:32:37 I have to do dishes. Yeah. Right. But even when I'm ordering though, I think the reason I get annoyed with myself is because I don't order the salad or like a healthy soup or order, like Rudy's the bird, her delicious by the way. Oh my God. It's amazing. Um, but, but I'll order stuff like, you know, hot dogs and fries to lots of fry.
Speaker 2 00:33:16 Yeah. No. Yeah. Cause basically you're stress eating and these are the foods that you find comforting. Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 1 00:33:22 Mac and cheese.
Speaker 2 00:33:25 Yeah. So yeah. So that's actually part of not taking care of yourself because people engage in unhealthy coping strategies like drinking too much smoking, being too sedentary, eating too much junk food. Not doing enough, not eating enough, also counts or not getting enough sleep. Oh dear. Maybe I'm the not eating enough. Oh shit. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:33:45 Yes. 16 hours without eating something.
Speaker 2 00:33:49 Yeah. I've done that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:33:51 I remember once you were like, when did you last eat? Oh, yesterday afternoon. And that, by the way, everyone stresses me out. Every time I run into her and she's talking like that where I haven't eaten in like a day and a half and someone who uses food as her entire reason for existence, this is very upsetting.
Speaker 2 00:34:17 Okay. It's not a day and a half. Maybe
Speaker 1 00:34:20 It was a full day. It was a
Speaker 2 00:34:22 Day. Okay. What's a day.
Speaker 1 00:34:25 Like I remember we met at like four o'clock or something and you hadn't had anything since lunch the previous day.
Speaker 2 00:34:31 Yeah. Okay. Okay. Fine. Okay. Yeah. So
Speaker 1 00:34:33 It wasn't a D and a half, but it was more than a day.
Speaker 2 00:34:36 Yeah. All right. You're right. I stand corrected. Um, yeah. Not, not sleeping enough. Yeah. And basically not sleeping enough is another one self-medication is another issue. And that could include relying on sleeping pills to sleep, drinking more alcohol at the end of the day to distress or drinking more coffee to summon up the energy, to drag yourself into work in the morning, which is interesting. I must say this Forbes article is much more revealing than the Mayo, the Mayo questionnaire.
Speaker 1 00:35:09 Okay. What's actionable telling, you know, the proper symptoms, let us know we need to solve it.
Speaker 2 00:35:18 Yeah. And this is how we're going to give you five pointers. Um, okay. Uh, oh, sorry. Go on.
Speaker 1 00:35:24 Go on. How many symptoms are there?
Speaker 2 00:35:28 Um, they get to 10. They get to 10. Yep. So then eight, um, is being preoccupied with work when you're not at work. So even you might be working at a given moment. If you're expending mental energy mulling over your job, then your work is interfering with your ability to recover from the stresses of your day. Correct? Yeah. In order to recover, you need time to yourself after the actual task stops and time. When you stop thinking about that task altogether. Oh Jesus. I feel like this is speaking to me. I'm like, I'm thinking about work all the time and do they tell you? No, not yet. I'll go into what they suggest. Okay. I don't know if they get, I don't know if they have anything around that, but I bet you it's meditate. I'm going, I'm going to bet money. It's fucking meditation. Anyway, it's going to be meditation and fucking yoga. Um, okay. Nine is generally decreased satisfaction. So yeah. So the male alluded to this as well. So it's a tendency feel less happy and satisfied with your career and your home life. Uh, you might feel dissatisfied or even stuck when it comes to whatever's going on at home, in the community or with your social activities and then 10. Yeah. Over a long period of time. Serious chronic stress can create health problems such as digestive issues, heart disease, depression and obesity. Good times all around that explains
Speaker 1 00:36:52 The weekend.
Speaker 2 00:36:55 Uh, yeah. Okay. Let's get into Forbes is solutions.
Speaker 1 00:37:00 Tell me I love
Speaker 2 00:37:01 Solutions. Okay. One take relaxation. Seriously. Okay. Fine. I, I feel like this is speaking to me. Um, okay. Whether you take up meditation, I told you, I told you did called it. I called it. Okay. But at least,
Speaker 1 00:37:18 And option, it's not saying just meditation, whether it's meditation, what's the alternative.
Speaker 2 00:37:25 Sorry. Let's go through the whole list. So whether you take up meditation, listening to music, reading a book, taking a walk or visiting with friends and family, truly think about what you'll do to relax and designate time for it. I feel like I do at the time I do. It's just afterwards in the
Speaker 1 00:37:42 Work just comes
Speaker 2 00:37:43 Back, um, to cultivate a rich non-work life. Find something else that okay. They're joking. Right. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:37:57 I started laughing even before you reacted, because
Speaker 2 00:38:03 You just knew like,
Speaker 1 00:38:05 If people could just see your expression right now,
Speaker 2 00:38:09 I know you should see the massive eye-roll that I'm sure I just gave them. Okay. Um, find something outside of work that you are passionate about, that it's challenging, engaging, and really gets you going. Whether it's a hobby sports or fitness activities or volunteering in the community. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:38:27 Next what
Speaker 2 00:38:29 I know we'll have all this fucking time in the world.
Speaker 1 00:38:33 So it's like, I'm why, why belabor this point?
Speaker 2 00:38:37 Exactly. Okay. You and I both know how we feel. Okay. Okay. Okay. The third one is unplug. While communication technology can promote productivity, it can also allow work stressors, seep into family, time, vacation and social activities. I think this is, yeah, this is valid. Okay. Set boundaries by turning off cell phones at dinner and delegating certain times check, email. I think that's valid.
Speaker 1 00:39:05 That's actually very valid. Yeah. I shall incorporate that.
Speaker 2 00:39:10 Yeah. I think it's an easy, it's hard to do, but it's, it's doable that one's doable. Sure. Right. Cause you can just be like, it involves a little bit of like a fuck off attitude though. Just like, sorry. Available.
Speaker 1 00:39:29 Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying. Um, so this weekend I actually did not check my email. Oh. Except there was one moment when my phone, like I picked up my work phone. Yeah. I saw that the number had surpassed tweet, digits of unread emails, which is a little bit daunting because tomorrow I don't know what I'm going to wake up.
Speaker 2 00:39:58 Oh
Speaker 1 00:39:58 Geez. But it's okay. Well fine now.
Speaker 2 00:40:02 Yeah. The next one is get enough. Sleep research suggests that having fewer than six hours of sleep per night is a major risk for burnout. Not least because poor sleep can have negative effects on your job, performance and productivity.
Speaker 1 00:40:17 Tell me something. I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:40:18 Yeah. I know. I'm like, I'm not even reading the rest of it. There's a whole paragraph. I'm not even lying. I'm like, we all know exactly. Then the next one is get organized. Often when people are burnt out, they spend a lot of time worrying that they'll forget to do something or that something important is going to slip through the cracks, get organized, clear your head, put together to do list or an electronic task list. Then prioritize.
Speaker 1 00:40:42 That's a good one. I actually started organizing my apartment, but that's only so that I can feel like I'm in control. That is actually on my to-do list for this week is I'm going to go through and make a list of every single, even the most mundane task that I have to do. I'm actually going to list them out and exactly use that method and be like, okay, which ones can I cross off? And um, cause I feel productive and feel productive. Cause I feel like if I start feeling, seeing, seeing it crossed out, I feel like will help me feel a little bit more in control.
Speaker 2 00:41:22 Mm mm. Yeah. I just do it just to make sure that I get things done. I use it more as like, forget about this.
Speaker 1 00:41:30 Yeah. But, but often, you know, when I'm so busy, like I don't add the little things, you know, but um, but I will,
Speaker 2 00:41:42 Okay. Six is stay attuned. It's important to tune into the precursors of those conditions. Physical signs that you might be under too much stress, more headaches, tight shoulders, a stiff neck or more frequent stomach upset in terms of mental health, burnout effects, depression. And if you're depressed that can also affect your level of burnout. It goes both ways. If the issues you're struggling with a really serious and getting worse, you may need to seek professional help talk to a psychologist, talk to a psychologist or psychiatrist, um, to get help. Sorry, it doesn't say psychiatrist, but I'm like, you should probably put that in there. Um, to get help beyond support from just your friends and family members. I think that's fair. I
Speaker 1 00:42:18 Mean, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:42:21 Yeah. Um, and then, then this is the last one. Oh no, this isn't the last one. Okay. One is no one it, oh, so the next one is no one it's you and when it's them. Hm.
Speaker 1 00:42:34 That's a good one. Interesting. Yeah. What does that mean though? Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:42:38 Okay. So basically some bone burnout is motivated by internal factors. Um, and sometimes it's really a symptom of external ones. So you have to ask basically, where is this coming from? So you can figure out what's stressing you out and how to maintain your internal resources to keep yourself motivated, doing your best work and functioning. Well, some burnout really is the fault of work in a survey we did in 2011. This is a physician who I think they interviewed. Um, they say that more than two thirds of respondents said that their employers had taken steps to cut costs as a result of the recession, like hiring freezes, layoffs, cutting work hours, rolling back benefits requiring unpaid days off increasing hours, et cetera, all that increases demands on workers. Um, those are the two components that play into burnout. There are more demands and fewer resources to find out whether it's time to move on, figure out whether your position is a mismatch between your needs and what you're getting working for that particular organization.
Speaker 1 00:43:33 Interesting. Well, at least it touches on the topic of, of what you were saying earlier, right? Like time resources or, um, what was your other one money, money. And, and it, it acknowledges that. So that's actually a pretty good, this was actually a pretty good article.
Speaker 2 00:43:51 Yeah. I know. I I'm, I'm actually
Speaker 1 00:43:52 Pretty impressed. He was eight years ago. So considering that, you know, thinking about this
Speaker 2 00:44:00 Good thing or a bad thing and leg, so basically it's just been around and nobody's,
Speaker 1 00:44:05 I'm guessing burnout has definitely been around. Right. Because human nature being what it is, um, especially at work-related burnout. Um, so, you know, but I'm glad that, you know, at least, um, people were talking about it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And then making recommendations and then it's like not a lot has changed in terms of the recommendations since then. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:44:31 Exactly. I think that's my problem with it. It's just like, we've known about it for a really long time. And yet, like there don't seem to be very many steps going forward to like prevent it from happening. Right. Like it's just,
Speaker 1 00:44:44 I mean, that's, I think the external factors that the article was referring to, right. It's like, it has to be a communal thing. It has to be a collaboration of, you know, um, individuals and institution, corporations and the governments. It has to, you know, one, one group cannot solve for this.
Speaker 2 00:45:08 No. And one individual can't either, that's the other thing, right? Like I'm glad that they actually mentioned it that like, sometimes it's not, it's not just self care and that's,
Speaker 1 00:45:21 I like it put a smile on your face because you're like, oh, I feel heard.
Speaker 2 00:45:26 So I'm like, thank you. Thank you for justifying my point of view. Um, yeah. Okay. And then, then, and then the last one is figure out when enough is enough talk, consider talking to your manager or HR about services, mental health benefits, or stress management training, or at least about how to improve communication and create a better, more positive work environment, angle the conversation about how those cultural shifts will enable you to continue to serve the company and become an even better employee. Um, yeah, I do think that, so this, this, uh, doctor Dr. Ballard says, I do think there are times when, no matter what you try to do, the organization is unable to, or unwilling to make those changes. And in those cases it is just time to move on.
Speaker 1 00:46:10 Hmm. Well, no, that, that does sound like a really good article actually. And to be honest, um, I know there isn't actually a real solution other than what's already been discussed in Mayo and, and the Forbes article. Um, but, um, I do actually hope that, you know, just, even by talking it out, I just realized that I actually do feel better than I did a podcast. Do you know what I mean? That's like, cause it was like, it's been a tough couple of weeks, um, especially recently. Um, and so, um, you know, just dealing with a lot of those negative emotions where I'm like, oh no, I know I'm so stressed. I'm so tired and blah, blah, blah. You know, and a lot of self-flagellation flagellation, you know, like, oh no, I'm, I wish I was stronger, better, more resilient, et cetera. So you're taking that onus on myself, but just talking it through was actually quite helpful. So
Speaker 2 00:47:09 That's awesome. No, that's good. I mean, I know, I feel, I feel like, uh, yeah, I feel like talking it through is help, but see one once again, like, I feel like it's helpful at the time, as soon as I get off, like as soon as I, like, as soon as we stop recording, I'm like I have to go back to work.
Speaker 1 00:47:31 Yeah. So we just have to figure out, uh, something long-term.
Speaker 2 00:47:37 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And who knows, maybe we'll figure something out and then share that with our listeners.
Speaker 1 00:47:45 Actually. You know, what, if there are solutions that you've found that have been helpful for you? Um, I'm gonna say this to the listeners out there, like let us know, um, tweet at us or Instagram or Facebook us. Um, does this make me look
[email protected] um, and same handle lacrosse and let us know, um, you know, what's been working, what's not been working. Are you feeling burnout or any other type of, you know, you feel like your mental health is being impacted. We'd love to hear about it and share. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:48:19 Yeah. I, I would be very interested in hearing other people's trials and tribulations and solutions, so
Speaker 1 00:48:27 Yeah, definitely solutions and, but no. And also just to hear your trials and tribulations, you know, any I'm happy to share.
Speaker 2 00:48:37 All right. I think we should call that an episode
Speaker 1 00:48:40 Definitely until next week. Sounds
Speaker 2 00:48:43 Good. Bye
